Everytime that I sign on, I get a notification that I have one new message. When I click on the link, it says "Access Denied". Totally confused :~ Any explanation gratefully received.
Very hard to determine. For a standard GSHP system versus GPL here, you would be looking at about 3-4 years, based on normal electricity costs. With mains gas, maybe 6, as it is cheaper. With the BTA3 tarrif, then this would be less, I will have to make some calculations. Long payback really on the solar heating, as the efficiency is only high in the summer months and you do not need heating then. An air source heat pump is a lot less to install, but running costs are slightly higher and the COP is lower, as you can see from the earlier link. It is however geared to work to -20C. With the PV side on the site you gave, with no gain on the feedback rate, then you could be looking at many years on your investment. If bank savings rates were higher, then you would probably gain more in interest!! Edit Tried to copy a comparison I have on file, but it did not show the charts, so deleted.
Thanks Bunterboy. To be quite honest the system looks very OTT and some of the specifications do not seem quite accurate. Nominal outputs on heat pumps are normally to European standard EN25 for ground source @input 0c output 35 or 50c. Air source is +7c to the same output. They are giving COP @ 19C and over, due to the solar recharge, which is very misleading, as it will vary quite a lot in the winter months, when the heat is needed more. You also cannot recharge a air source heat pump without a heat bank type of sytem. A IVT GSHP with 6.9kw output/1.7kw input @0C/ 50CÂ has a COP of 3.28, therefore the performance would be far higher @ 19C input than the pumps that these people are quoting. Just taking their figures on the above @ 33% increase, then the performance of the above unit has a COP of 4.4, far above what they quote. Ground Source Air Source The cost of the PV/heating panels, I think would make the whole system very expensive, albeit that they quote that the PV would be enough to power the heat pump. You could recharge the ground loops on a GSHP from solar, via a heat dump, or from air extracted from the house, therefore cutting operational times even more. I have only the research and paper for a conference, that was carried out by ourselves on the solar recharging that I can provide the link to see the possibilities. I will restate the point I made above, that for a 11kw output pump as we have here, then after the initial cost, if you changed to the BTA3 tarriff, you could run a whole house with 24/7 heating and hot water for many more years than it would take to recoup the cost of of a low kw PV installation. Please remember that the domestic hot water is only circa 20% of a heat pumps output, so therefore on my figures in the earlier post above this relates to a couple of hundred euro per year. Hope this helps, come back to me if you need further details.
Unfortunately, I am unable to attach a Excel calculator to this post so that anyone can use it to calculate the running costs of a heatpump on the BTA3 costing. If anyone is interested then please PM me. The costs here are as follows on actual and estimates of the pump running hours 1750 x 2.1 kw = 842 euro inclusive iva. Increasing the pump hours to 2500 makes this 1092 euro. Not bad at all for heating a house and domestic hot water 24/7 Â
ENEL ha introdotto fasce orarie di consumo a luglio 2010. La strada attuale, se non è presente alimentazione fotovoltaica, è spesso quella del doppio contatore, uno per l'abitazione ed uno specifico per la pompa di calore. E' possibile, in deroga, richiedere un secondo contatore ENEL specifico per la pompa di calore e contemporaneamente utilizzare il contatore residenziale. Il contatore specifico per la pdc puo' essere monofase o trifase a seconda della tipologia di macchina. Alleghiamo calcoli simulazione per fare una stima di confronto tra la soluzione con unico contatore trifase e con due (uno trifase e uno monofase); nel vostro caso vanno inseriti i valori di kWh consumati o previsti con uso in pompa di calore. - Contratto ENEL pompa di calore: è un contratto di tipo BTA 3 o superiore (in genere per abitazioni è il BTA3 con potenza variabile tra 3 a 6kW). La potenza da richiedere va calcolata considerando la potenza assorbita dalla macchina in alta temperatura maggiorando il valore di circa il 50%. E' bene comunque ricevere indicazione specifica dal nostro Ufficio Tecnico. Link: Delibera n.348 del 2007, Allegato B (come modificata dalla delibera n.30 del 2008) delle "CONDIZIONI ECONOMICHE PER L’EROGAZIONE DEL SERVIZIO DI CONNESSIONE" (): - Il contratto dell'abitazione è in genere per uso residenziale monofase con potenza di valore dipendente dagli elettrodomestici ed illuminazione specifici dell'abitazione (in genere varia da 3 a 6kW).
Seems to only apply to heat pumps, but trying to get some more info.
Preferential tariff for electricity
With Resolution 30/2008, paragraph 5.2 (which amended Resolution 348, 2007), the Energy Authority has introduced the possibility of a second counter with BTA tariff, in the case of using a heat pump system for the winter heating.
This allows you to connect a second meter BTA tariff, so you can power the heat pump only, freeing yourself from the consumption brackets of the scales D2 and D3.
The advantage for the home user is that this second sampling point may be bound to a tariff for "different uses" BTA1/2/3, which provides a fixed amount per kWh, about 11 euro cents, which, moreover, in the case of the application within
housing continues to enjoy preferential tax of 10%.
Since the is not known to everyone we report an excerpt: "Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 5.1, for households in low-voltage, ..., may be required to install a second sampling point is intended solely for 'supply heat pumps for space heating, also reversible. "
 Hi Penny The pizza may be good, but I can only comment on the meal I had. Would rather go to somewhere that I can have a good meal, either a pizza or any other. That place I will now always give a miss to, as just a tourist joint. If they ever learn to cook then I may return. The best pizza I have had in the Amandola area was at Vecchio Moro by the lake. Rimessa has really gone downhill since it was sold on from its last owner. Perhaps they should just stick to being a pizza joint, then nobody would pay for overpriced rubbish. Did not look at their pizza prices, as not interested for lunch. Anyway, some young guy in jeans who is more interested in watching the tv, than serving customers is not my idea of a restaurant, even if in Italy. I have had far better food in Cambodia and Vietnam than here. At least it is served without waiting 20 minutes between courses.
Comments posted
Get a quote from this company, for house and contents. It also includes earthquake cover.
Very hard to determine. For a standard GSHP system versus GPL here, you would be looking at about 3-4 years, based on normal electricity costs. With mains gas, maybe 6, as it is cheaper. With the BTA3 tarrif, then this would be less, I will have to make some calculations. Long payback really on the solar heating, as the efficiency is only high in the summer months and you do not need heating then. An air source heat pump is a lot less to install, but running costs are slightly higher and the COP is lower, as you can see from the earlier link. It is however geared to work to -20C. With the PV side on the site you gave, with no gain on the feedback rate, then you could be looking at many years on your investment. If bank savings rates were higher, then you would probably gain more in interest!! Edit Tried to copy a comparison I have on file, but it did not show the charts, so deleted.
Thanks Bunterboy. To be quite honest the system looks very OTT and some of the specifications do not seem quite accurate. Nominal outputs on heat pumps are normally to European standard EN25 for ground source @input 0c output 35 or 50c. Air source is +7c to the same output. They are giving COP @ 19C and over, due to the solar recharge, which is very misleading, as it will vary quite a lot in the winter months, when the heat is needed more. You also cannot recharge a air source heat pump without a heat bank type of sytem. A IVT GSHP with 6.9kw output/1.7kw input @0C/ 50CÂ has a COP of 3.28, therefore the performance would be far higher @ 19C input than the pumps that these people are quoting. Just taking their figures on the above @ 33% increase, then the performance of the above unit has a COP of 4.4, far above what they quote. Ground Source Air Source The cost of the PV/heating panels, I think would make the whole system very expensive, albeit that they quote that the PV would be enough to power the heat pump. You could recharge the ground loops on a GSHP from solar, via a heat dump, or from air extracted from the house, therefore cutting operational times even more. I have only the research and paper for a conference, that was carried out by ourselves on the solar recharging that I can provide the link to see the possibilities. I will restate the point I made above, that for a 11kw output pump as we have here, then after the initial cost, if you changed to the BTA3 tarriff, you could run a whole house with 24/7 heating and hot water for many more years than it would take to recoup the cost of of a low kw PV installation. Please remember that the domestic hot water is only circa 20% of a heat pumps output, so therefore on my figures in the earlier post above this relates to a couple of hundred euro per year. Hope this helps, come back to me if you need further details.
Annual green card so no problems. Have used them when we were making frequent trips.
Unfortunately, I am unable to attach a Excel calculator to this post so that anyone can use it to calculate the running costs of a heatpump on the BTA3 costing. If anyone is interested then please PM me. The costs here are as follows on actual and estimates of the pump running hours 1750 x 2.1 kw = 842 euro inclusive iva. Increasing the pump hours to 2500 makes this 1092 euro. Not bad at all for heating a house and domestic hot water 24/7 Â
On page 2 it is still there. You have to be logged in to read it!!!
ENEL ha introdotto fasce orarie di consumo a luglio 2010. La strada attuale, se non è presente alimentazione fotovoltaica, è spesso quella del doppio contatore, uno per l'abitazione ed uno specifico per la pompa di calore. E' possibile, in deroga, richiedere un secondo contatore ENEL specifico per la pompa di calore e contemporaneamente utilizzare il contatore residenziale. Il contatore specifico per la pdc puo' essere monofase o trifase a seconda della tipologia di macchina. Alleghiamo calcoli simulazione per fare una stima di confronto tra la soluzione con unico contatore trifase e con due (uno trifase e uno monofase); nel vostro caso vanno inseriti i valori di kWh consumati o previsti con uso in pompa di calore. - Contratto ENEL pompa di calore: è un contratto di tipo BTA 3 o superiore (in genere per abitazioni è il BTA3 con potenza variabile tra 3 a 6kW). La potenza da richiedere va calcolata considerando la potenza assorbita dalla macchina in alta temperatura maggiorando il valore di circa il 50%. E' bene comunque ricevere indicazione specifica dal nostro Ufficio Tecnico. Link: Delibera n.348 del 2007, Allegato B (come modificata dalla delibera n.30 del 2008) delle "CONDIZIONI ECONOMICHE PER L’EROGAZIONE DEL SERVIZIO DI CONNESSIONE" (): - Il contratto dell'abitazione è in genere per uso residenziale monofase con potenza di valore dipendente dagli elettrodomestici ed illuminazione specifici dell'abitazione (in genere varia da 3 a 6kW).
Seems to only apply to heat pumps, but trying to get some more info.
Preferential tariff for electricity
With Resolution 30/2008, paragraph 5.2 (which amended Resolution 348, 2007), the Energy Authority has introduced the possibility of a second counter with BTA tariff, in the case of using a heat pump system for the winter heating.
This allows you to connect a second meter BTA tariff, so you can power the heat pump only, freeing yourself from the consumption brackets of the scales D2 and D3.
The advantage for the home user is that this second sampling point may be bound to a tariff for "different uses" BTA1/2/3, which provides a fixed amount per kWh, about 11 euro cents, which, moreover, in the case of the application within
housing continues to enjoy preferential tax of 10%.
Since the is not known to everyone we report an excerpt: "Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 5.1, for households in low-voltage, ..., may be required to install a second sampling point is intended solely for 'supply heat pumps for space heating, also reversible. "
Sender was deleted sometime ago. Suggest you just delete the message.
 Hi Penny The pizza may be good, but I can only comment on the meal I had. Would rather go to somewhere that I can have a good meal, either a pizza or any other. That place I will now always give a miss to, as just a tourist joint. If they ever learn to cook then I may return. The best pizza I have had in the Amandola area was at Vecchio Moro by the lake. Rimessa has really gone downhill since it was sold on from its last owner. Perhaps they should just stick to being a pizza joint, then nobody would pay for overpriced rubbish. Did not look at their pizza prices, as not interested for lunch. Anyway, some young guy in jeans who is more interested in watching the tv, than serving customers is not my idea of a restaurant, even if in Italy. I have had far better food in Cambodia and Vietnam than here. At least it is served without waiting 20 minutes between courses.