½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Thank you, Penny. I knew about the conviction, but I did not know about the rule. In any case, I do not trust Grillo.

Ram, I do think that you are mistaken concerning what the Catholic Church in Italy gets from the ½ûÂþÌìÌà government. The Lateran Treaty was a compensation from the loss of the Papal States after the unification of Italy: which represented a big chunk of current ½ûÂþÌìÌà territory, namely Lazio, Romagna, Umbria and Marche, plus a few bits and pieces. The "Otto per mille" that the Church gets, plus tax concessions, etc. are a minor prize compared to the value of those territories. You are a real estate person, you would know. On the other hand, the Church has to maintain over 65,000 buildings, many of them needing repairs and they are not maintained by the ½ûÂþÌìÌà government. To give you an example, there are currently quite a few appeals from the Bagni di Lucca parishes to rebuild bell towers and bits and pieces that are falling apart. And some of these churches are fine Romanic examples, which are open to the public. No fees are charged. Contrary to what happens in other countries, most ½ûÂþÌìÌà churches, many of them real masterpieces, are open for anyone to visit without paying a cent. And who looks after them? The Church. As for flowers, electricity and all the expenditure related to those churches, again is up to the local parish. I can even tell you how much is spent monthly on flowers at Bagni di Lucca and how the ladies who help with that have to perform miracles with that little money. Furthermore, the ½ûÂþÌìÌà Catholic Church through its organisation "Caritas" looks after people in need (during and long after the Aquila earthquake it played a vital role and it keeps on doing it in the North after the 2012 earthquake), migrants, the elderly and many others who would not be looked after by government bodies. It is also present in 64 other countries and almost 60 million euro from the (8 per 1000) go there. Difficult to ascertain the real value of that work as most is done by volunteers, using premises that belong to the Church. Regarding pilgrim's contribution to the ½ûÂþÌìÌà economy, I think that you may be thinking of the Youth meetings and not the millions of religious tourists who make a solid contribution to the economy and do not eat sandwiches at St Peter's square. Ram, I am afraid that you have not been told the whole story. The blog that I recommended has no affiliations, they simply denounce fake news without looking at the topic or having any pre-conceived ideas. It is an excellent source of information. And my apologies to other members for this answer that has little to do with the main topic, but I could not do it otherwise.  

Flip, thank you for the information on the BBC program, I will try to watch it. In Spain - where I am at present - the ½ûÂþÌìÌà situation is getting wide coverage as it is affecting Spain´s stock exchange and the interest that we have to pay on bonds. It has gone up because of the uncertainty of the results. All economies are interlinked and affect all of us.

All the protest movements in Europe - the first one took place in Spain in May 2011 under the name of "Indignados" - originate from the book "Indignez-vous" by French author Stéphane Hessel, who passed away just today. ! The book is very interesting, I read it; however, I failed to see real solutions. Protest in itself may be good, although destructive. To make it into a positive movement, you have to offer alternatives and a pathway. Grillo yells, screams, insults (remember the Levi-Montalcini deplorable incident) but does not even want to be part of a government. He prefers to play the pupeteer role. Protest movements have not achieved much since 2011. Most of them are highly disorganized, without a real direction, purpose and leaders. I do not deny that the majority of those people wanting a change are genuine; however, good intentions are not enough and the political and power corridors are long and narrow and more like a labyrinth for newcomers. In any case, they only represent 1 in every 4 ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs, they may hold the balance of power but they will have to be very smart to handle this power properly. In any case, God save Italy!It will really need divine intervention.  

Thank you, Fillide. You said what I was going to reply. If anyone has any doubts, simply google "Berlusconi embarrassing moments" and you will see quite a "collection". PS I have other answers coming but today is a busy day for me. They will come, though...

The traditional left will always vote the left. Berlusconi does not represent the centre-right. He is a populist and has his own agenda... not to mention that he is an embarrassment. Grillo got the vote from the disgruntled who want to protest and cannot find a better way. Monti... we all know what has happened. Italy needs a new genaration of politicians. these are old men, old ideas, no innovation, no future... I like Monti's newly adopted dog, "Empatia", or "Empy" for short. "Empy for Prime Minister!"  At least she is cute...

Although Grillo and Berlusconi are very different, they do have one thing in common, they are "populists". and populism is dangerous, it has always been. Scraping the IMU and refunding monies is a promise that Italy cannot afford. Local Councils need that money to function. And more... Grillo goes into a frenzy critizising everyone and everything, but I cannot see real programs and policies. So anyone disgruntled will give him a protest vote. On the other hand, complaining will not solve problems. MOnti did what he had to do, or what he was asked to do; however, he did not realize that austerity alone will not pull out a country out of an economic crisis (never mind, others are doing the same thing i.e Rajoy in Spain). And then, the centre-left. Bersani was not the person to lead them. Renzi was.

Sorry, Ram. I have to disagree with part of your post. The costs of the election of a new Pope will not be an extra burden to Italy. First, the Lateran Treaty makes no special provisions for this type of ancillary costs. Second, it is a piece of fake news by some ½ûÂþÌìÌà media as clearly explained in acacciadibufale.wordpress.org in their entry from the 15th current. (A very interesting blog, I may add)  I would add that the Pope's election may bring in extra tourists ond more money. Regarding possible savings, I sould say that Bersani should ask Renzi to take over and implement all his proposals and that would save a lot of money. And I would ask Monti to continue with austerity measures but also look at more development of the economy to avoid stagnation. He should start getting rid of Brussel's and Germany's directives. And, definitely, I would ask both Berlusconi and Beppe Grillo to stop clowning around. As for the ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs, in general, to look first after the good of Italy and less into their own pockets. 

"Italia paese ingovernabile".

I guess that we will have to wait longer... the results are nnot very clear at this early stage. Berlusconi seems to be doing quite well and may control the Senate.