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I agree with Sebastiano. The politicians failed to realize that the electorate wanted new alternatives. The PD tried to perpetuate the old guard by choosing Bersani over Renzi. This election is a big joke and perhaps may seal the end of the Second Republic. After this... the deluge. Perhaps Monti should have been given more time to do some reforms. At least, it would have given a chance to better reflect on what is good for Italy... 

Ram, we shall agree to disagree on this particular subject. You have your position and I have mine. Perhaps you need to go more frequently to ½ûÂþÌìÌà churches (not museums) to see for yourself. As for Belli Arti funding this is also available to individuals and lay associations, it is not restricted to the Church. I can tell you that some EU funds have also been made available for this kind of projects. Politics and religion are touchy subjects. I took a risk in this case, because I saw that nobody was eager to do it and I thought that it was weird for an ½ûÂþÌìÌà forum not to discuss the most important and relevant topic at this moment. I value your opinions and, although we may not coincide in our views, at least on religion and Vatican matters, I would prefer not to continue this discussion here as we are hijacking the thread. We may have a healthy argument at a later stage... perhaps following the new Pope's election?

SirTK, Google is only a tool to search for Berlusconi's embarrassing moments, which have been widely documented by the ½ûÂþÌìÌà and international press. And what about the Ruby scandal and all the "bunga-bunga"? If you like Berlusconi in spite of his conduct, it is your privilege. Obviously, there is a percentage of ½ûÂþÌìÌà voters who prefer to close their eyes. But to say that Berlusconi's "gaffes" and moral inadequacy are just "propaganda" is to be blindfolded. But, if you like it... 

I never said anthing flattering regarding Berlusconi, Flip. Quite the contrary. I only said that some people within the centre right may be more "traditional" conservatives. I thought and expected that these people would prefer to vote for Monti... but this did not happen. I think now that many of those who voted for Berlusconi were only thinking with their pockets and not their brains. Otherwise, it is difficult to understand the support he got.

I have watched it. Revealing and horrifying. An excellent program and I can only hope tat the ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs will react at some stage, although Berlusconi's good results makes me think that they are blind, deaf and mute. If nothing is done, Italy will not wake up from her self-induced coma. A very sad girlfriend, indeed!

Flip, regarding your post of yesterday, 1:22 pm, in my opinion, Grillo's movement is more "populist" than the rest. Berlusconi is also a "populist", although some areas of his party and alliances are more "traditional". The PD and Monti are not in that "league".

Thank you, Fillide. Although I always try to be "diplomatic", on this instance I am feeling so furious that I am forgetting my manners. And I totally agree with Steinbruek. On the other hand, he should not have said it and Napolitano'did what he had to do. In any case, this gaffe is nothing compared to what Grillo an Berluscony continuously say and do. By the way, I read that some Grillo voters are starting to have second thoughts and have expressed that in Grillo's blog... That's interesting...

Sorry Ram, we are not going to agree on this point. Although the Lateran Treaty was originally signed by Mussolini, it has been confirme by all other democratic governments after him, who did not need Vatican support, and incorporatrd into the ½ûÂþÌìÌà Constitution in 1947, after Mussolini's death.  The ½ûÂþÌìÌà government does not pay for the maintenance of the churches. I do not know what the Sicilians do or say, but it is not true. Your example of paying for the right to enter the Vatican Museum and the Vatican not paying tax to Italy is wrong, as the Museum is Vatican soil and therefore exempt from taxes. I was telling you about churches, which are masterpieces, open to the public at no charge and you have not been able to contradict me. Museums, throughout the world, do charge an entry fee. And not all religious tourists stay in convents. I have never stayed in one and I know many others who also go to hotels and apartments. The payment that convents get through tourists is what keeps them alive and maintains the buildings. Otherwise, there will be plenty of mre ruins throughout Italy. 

The amount of information that can be found through the Web is amazing Now, before doing anything, check with Council.

A good friend has just sent me this most interesting link Obviously, Steinbrueck is no diplomat and could never say that in public; however, I am glad that he thinks as I do. I´m not alone....