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took me a while to realise that logically i had to ignore whatever number of pages beyond 2... otherwise my life would be spent reading forum input.. much of which would be irrelevant to me...as outside areas or fields i was interested in ...to my mind until Ronald can get the filter working to do this automatically its fairly simple... i click the new posts button and pretty well much like the old forum i know when i last visited and that's the limit... all new posts have a time beside... if i want to keep track of what i did only i whizz to my activity and they are all there if there are new posts i can reply...on the old forum a computer did this for you ...if when you logged back in after a week away there would beÌýnew posts since your lastÌývisit... so lots.. after a day less... the only problem with this system is that it holds them all available ... but you know when you last visited so justÌýgo back to that point in looking...which is often only half the first page..anyway that's how i do it... not saying you should stay or leave... either of youÌý.. just this place takes a bit more thought ... which after a while will become automatic...of course regarding new posts ...you could make the effort and read all of them ...so emptying that option of all old new posts and start afresh ...religiously reading all every day... which would then only be a page maybe.... but i preferÌýto miss what i have missed already... much as it happened on the old forum...Ìýif i didn't read all postsÌýwhen i logged in... Ìý

i though now a days septic tanks were almost sealed units which biologically munch whatever ends up in them with ..the tanks basically double chambers in a plastic form which you can go and see in any building yard... and the soak away area was for almost clean liquid and quite smallhowever i do know the euro 8000 is somewhat over priced for that sort of system ...to put it mildly and you might like to look at this sitewhich gives not only prices for the various units but how many people they are suitable for.. and i would suggest that if you have a drainage system already in place to an existing waste disposal that the actual cost of installation would be approx 250 euro for a digger driver and machine for half a day or so... and 100 euro for the gravel for any soak-away...Ìýand about the same for any pipework.. the digger driver or you can most probably slot the pipes in..however is is slightly more complicated the first page of the site gives you various cheaper types of tanks...Ìý but the link below takes you to a further page which gives you the tanks which comply with all new regs and munch and crunch the waste more efficientlytheir price seems to start at the 3000 euro mark...rural properties with plenty of their own surrounding land i would have thought could easily use the first page option... the second page option would be if not compulsory a good idea for those with smaller areas surrounding their property or specific problems say with nearby streams which you would have to be careful of polluting...Ìýanyway prices and sizes are there .. and if you add a very max 1000 euro for labour... unless you are on solid rock and require dynamite...Ìý you should arrive to my mind at an installation costing max 3,500 - 4000 and the more simpler systems around 1500 - 2000ÌýÌý

sympathy... deepest... and congratulations.......it has to be registered as it nowÌý for legal reasons.... and it doesnt really matter about your residency...Ìý but the fact is all changes have to be registered in this way...they also use the calculations off the sq m. to do your rubbish tax... so even if resident the vigili visits and checks out how much habitable property there is..........no real idea of what you changed and how your comune charges... they are all different...however make sure you get the receipt from the geometra with all the tax/registration and bollos he paid listed... or even ask him how it breaks down...ie what he has to pay to the comune and what hes taking for doing it all... in general have found that its the comune that takes the lions share... especially if its the same geometra you have paid for the project....................hopefully now you can enjoy the place.......Ìý

joyour right we all do things our own way or even notÌýat all ....thankfully its a free world... i think the remark that might have started this are from someone that just cares a lot and has visted the area... sort of passionate plea that was trying to get a few more people going...Ìý it could be refered to as a sort of burnout ...whatever i agree with you and also see that David has a strong passion for his beliefs.. and we all need passionate people around even if sometimes they come across as dictators.... and i dont believe he is

much of what sempre says is true...this is old news... have a certain sympathy with Davids views too although as a group the people off the forum from the Marche deserve a lot of thanks from all of us for helping to keep this idea going at all... and for their epic voyage to the rescue centre....Ìýto me this seems to require a slight rethink... at the start immediate funds that arrived on the ground were /are needed.. hence the desire to set it up to go via the ½ûÂþÌìÌà red cross... of course they will always need money ...but government help is now at hand for the more mundane things and along with that our interest in that side of things... toys/baby food... washing stuff has diminished because we know those things are available and the people are also getting government sustenance as regards an allowance... and we all know a thousand euro here or there will not make a lot of differencei think we need a target to aim for and a limited direction for the money we raise... ie a suggestion because the marche group already has a contact there would be the animal rescue centre at L'Aquila... if animals can not be in the frame because they have a limited appeal...a sponsorship of a really hard off family... anyway you get the idea ...something small that we can actually see a return on...maybe hear a report on how things go...my favorite is the rescue place...its most probably already a registered type of charity... which means funds can be sent to it... the marche group have visited and know its a well run place... and they know it has desperate need for the few staff...if they are willing to say set a target of no more than euro 5000 for a specific role of help from the forum this would mean a donation level of just ten euro per member...i could have other ideas regarding people, places would just set us impossible targets to reach... you cannot build a shed here for less than 20,000 euro...Ìý so am really trying to keep a perspective on what we can achieve...so say for the animal thing... a separate area for the really sick animals to recover... a piece of equipment... something that will last...ok maybe these are not the most urgent things required but its do able... it helps and it gives us targets... that to me is what is missing now...and it gives our collective help some sort of substantial recognition... one day one o us might visit the place and see what our efforts achieved...one final point... the province of Teramo is taking the lions share of help regarding the people of L'aquila... 15,000 were evacuated here into mainly seaside hotels... who were already booked for the summer period...about to start... and its one of the few areas where there have been no problems with them being served out of date food or just ignored... since the immediate problem there have now been i think around 3000 properties offered for these people to stay in... free.. i know this because some english people were offering places that they wanted to rent ...and the civile protection have not started doing the ones for rent yet...the L'Aquila people however are reluctant once again to move ... ie from hotels on the coat to inland places and are resisting in some cases leaving what has become their new communities... am not blaming them...just saying its not all a one sided story... they have also been assigned many of the winter resort accommodation ... but once again they are not that happy with that...Ìý they are reluctant to go back to properties inside the province of L'Aquila as they feel safer here... this can be seen by the amounts of people still insisting on remaining in the tent villages despite their houses being declared safe.. again i can understand that... its just to say Tearomo has and is helping...even the other day at a restaurant if i came from that area ... a meal would have cost me half the normal price...50% discount...anyway my thoughtsÌýfor what they are worth

meant to add... to get the definitive...well italian definitive answer the regional site of the anagrafe might well be of help.. if you do a google search on the site i mentioned for the dog regsitration info and your region name it should trawl up your local website...Ìý Anagrafe Canina Regionalethis site looks to me pretty much the equivalent of the english Defra site

now with the amount of legislation that pours out here its simple that things get missed... although its strange that a vet does not know... its an obligation for all dog owners here.. so i doubt very much that place of birth outside of Italy will in anyway make a difference however regional take up of the law might well but there is a national deadline...so even if they are planning on ignoring it now 2011 is the date set for coming into line...as regards the registration and italians its a simple thing... ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs that own dogs... especially in the country are very reluctant to admit to ownership...they will feed loosely look after and chain the dog... but if you ask if its theirs will often deny that they have any ownership... it avoids problems with the dog either biting someone, causing an accident or any of the milliard of things they presume they can get into trouble for regarding acknowledging their ownership..this really only works in rural areas and town/city people will have a different responsibility and from the plethora of forums.. would suggest that most people with dogs here that do care about them follow rules...anyway the law is there it will arrive to a stage where non compliance will mean fines and there will be controls ... maybe its just another way for comunes to catch people out and earn a bit more... if they don'tÌýallow you to conform before the date then they willÌýbe able to fine you after...ÌýÌýÌýpresume you are resident if not then that might be the reason why there is a difference ....Ìý

its simple there are rights and wrongs... if someone chooses a wrong way thats up to them... heres the people that are resopnsible for dogs and the laws etc throughout Italythe dog has to have a micrichip...and if registered before i think 2004 a tatto...two in fact... by 2011 it will be against the law not to hav it microchipped so now all dogs that visit a vet are microchipped as matter of course to get it all done by then.....a dog has to be registered within 45 days of birth or ten days of moving to a region or within ten days of buying it...Ìývia a vet with the local asl....cats can be but its voluntary...owners not complying can be fined...there are alsoÌý breeds of dogs that have much further controls placed upon them and their owners and the breeds below have to be muzzled and on leads whenevr out in public........

• Pit Bull
• Rottweiler
• German Shepherd
• Bull Mastiff
• DobermanÌý
• St BernardÌý
• Newfoundland
• Ìý

.......now all our dogs have been to a vet... and until we found the so far best one.. all threeÌýhave insisted that the dogs are registered.. now they have to be microchipped...Ìý so my observations are based on that plus the fact that its pretty well normal as far as im concerned all stray dogs in Italy should be regsitered as being owned by the mayor of the comune they were found in......following rules is not scaremongering and i really cannot see how any vet that is worth anything here will allow you to register if the dog is not legal...

thats the most fearsome disease here in Italy for dog owners and its a common enough problem to be worry in many areas here... not just down south where its almsot endemic but there are hotspots ...around rome and many areas in the cntre north ... especialley it seems in coastal areas as the fly breeds best where the air is more humid... height is a saviour as regards this ...in the sense that the fly does not breed so well in areas with plenty of fresh air...its wise to be aware also that there are species of animals in italy such as vipers that can get upset with curious dogs...not used to getting a bite from anything they dig their noses into... but am sure your friends will be aware of this... and its something to be cautious about by being aware ...but not i would say fearful...sun stroke... animals get it... beach holidays are not suitable for animals... besides the controls on access to beaches... i know ...you have not mentioned that...Ìý just a general observation...the harness you get for dogs is sold in most pet shops...in the UK too ... i also have never used them so cannot be much help on their fitting ... however i think its just a case of putting the harness on the dog... and there is a loop which the belt goes through and you then click the seat-belt into its socket... a simple thing...... the thing is you know your dogs best and from the sounds of it they are used to travelling by or in the car... and are calm and content... even the best run kennels can be stressful for a dog... so you will know what your dogs prefer... although as far as i remember you have to plan well in advance.. and have your dog treated in plenty of time before they are allowed out.. the Defra site or your vet will know all the current limits...anyway you have plenty of time to look into things.. and get prepared ...Ìý

cannot recall anyone else asking this sort of question ...or indeed anyone having their own plane... i remember once visiting a pilots forum and this might be where you could get the most up to date infoÌýas a general view on changing things regarding italy from uk... if getting a car approved is anything to go by i should think an aircraft will be in a different league..Ìýi would look into requirement re the tech specs from the builder and getting them translated... or finding out if they prepare italian documentation...even handle re registration... also your qualifications ... obviously pilots by their nature are quite free to move airlines and different countries and it might be worth contacting an italian airline company to see what they would require and how they went about in...there are supposed to be reciprocal agreements in the sense of qualifications but the rules and how they are applied are sometimes difficult...Ìýfinally would say that the area is one where they have lots of smuggling problems... where doesnt... and it will be i would have thought whatever airfield you find there that is suitable to make sure that they are aware of your legitimate interest in flying... there will be very tight controls...Ìý and lots of odd questions... even normal people...not saying your not normal... get the question sometimes with a look of suspicion ... as to why they want to base themselves in areas of Italy and with an aircraftÌý i would have thought curiosity and envy might well lead to some strange questions... and job offers...how you get on will make some interesting reading i am sure...best of luck... and let us knowÌýÌý