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So - clearly you are going to answer NO to my query. Read this - which comes from an internatioanally respected organisation - and consider whether you would like to add your two pennyworh. It could make a difference, and it doesn't matter whether you are a Brit, or an American, or an ½ûÂþÌìÌÃ; just signing this petition could possibly make a difference, and can in no way harm you. "Dear friends from across Italy, We have a historic opportunity to adopt a strong law against corruption, but only if enough of us raise our voices can we beat Berlusconi who is pushing hard to water down the law. We have just a few days left before Parliament's discussion -- sign the petition and tell everyone! In days, our Minister of Justice will announce the key elements of a new anti-corruption law that could be the best chance Italy has ever had to stop this crime. But unless we all weigh in now it could be a toothless, useless bill. This new law could empower judges to fully investigate corruption cases, bar corrupt politicians from standing for office, and protect whistle blowers who denounce abuses and irregularities. But Berlusconi's party is pushing hard to water down the law. Right now with local elections around the corner, our politicians are especially sensitive to public opinion. If enough of us remind them that their vote on this could cost them re-election -- we could get the strong anti-graft bill our country needs. Corruption costs us, taxpayers, 60 billion euros every year, not to mention its poisonous impact on our democracy. We now have a clear opportunity to curb it. We only have days to influence the process before it is laid before Parliament. Click below to sign the petition to clean up our democracy once and for all, and tell everyone: Ìý

I accept your point of view, Ram, with a few reservationas. It is perfectly sensible to ask your plumber/electrician for their cerificates as soon as they have finished the job, and they will be forthcoming - but you do have to ask for them (only because they are lazy and more intertsted in functiuionality than in filling in forms!) As regards the ACE (thermal certificate) I am iunder the impression that this is essential for the comune to issue the 'agibilita'. I could be wrong, and this also could vary depending on the regione. In respect of this thermal cerificate it does appear (this is not clear) that a 'ruin' indisputably constructed ante 1967 NOW needs one of these - Ìý(which is pretty silly if the ruin has no roof!) The aspect of all of this stuff which distrsses me is that trying to establish whether you are following estate agents rules, notaios rules, the absurdly pedantiic rules of the body granting the mutuo, or the letter of the law - well that's impossible.Ìý And - for sprostoni (I think) - no, the tecinco of the comune is not in any respect paragonablile with a building inspector: Ram's comment that the original 'technico' must sign off the work is okayish - definitely the best route, but not the only route.

You are correct to say that there is no reason for a 'normal householder' to consider one of these certificates essential. The need for one comes about if you have had any work done to your house which required a permission, and which resulted in an alteration of the layout, or window positions etc Ìýmeaning that the current catastal documents don't exactly match the reality, and will jump up and bite you only when you want to sell. The certificate of abitabilita/agibilita (same thing) following work carried out serves effectively the same purpose as a completion certificate issued by the Building Inspector in the UK. In the past these sort of formalities got glossed over in Italy, (and it is possible to get caught out by having bought a house which you have not done any work to, but which the previous owners had not updated on the registered catastal drawings). This is the bit of law which sagraisolar has encountered, because his comune has started checking up on permissions granted but for which no certificate has been issued. In his case at least he had the work carried out on his own behalf, but you could also be entrapped because of work carried out by the previous owner. Nowadays the law requires notaios, when transacting a house, to receive affirmation that all the catastal drawings are fully current, and (I am told) to also require a certificate of abitabilita. The certificate is valid for as long as no further works are carried out to the house. So, unless you need one of these certificates to sell or rent out your house, or your comune fingers you as a likely source of some income, you don't need one. However, if you are thinking about selling your house it is as well to start the process ahead of time, because it can take up to six months to get one!

Here is a load of stuff which you need for a certificate of abitabilita: it may not be comprehensive, but here goes. Thermal certificate by a geometra now including an estimate of the annual total energy requirement of the house. Will cost around €500 to prepare. Ceritificate of electrical system - free from the original electrician, difficulties and costs if he happens to have died. Certificate of plumbing system - free from original plumber, not as difficult as electrics if plumber has died. Approval of septic tank discharge if to land. (This is a very recent one, and may very between regions) Ìý- geometra has to draw up what is existing and get apporoval from local water authority - €600 or so. Proof of water supply. Water bill is enough if mains water is connected, otherwise well water has to be tested at a cost of around €300. In addition I am told that a DURC is required (certificate from a builder showing he has paid all his taxes and NI payments). This is wonderfully tricky if the builder engaged many years ago has retired, because this DURC must be current, and DURCs only last a very short time (3 months, I think). Can normally be overcome by a builder who owes the geometra a favour obliging, but this may open up a can of worms for the future. The other major requirement is to ensure that the house exactly accords with the catastal drawings on record, both externally and internally. This might well knock you back another €6-700. I wouldn't be surprised if evidence that you have had your boiler serviced and tested regularly is also asked for,Ìýthough so far no geometra has asked for this. As to the requirement that the original geometra has to sign stuff off, I'm not convinced this is the case - certainly not for the thermal certificate or for the drainage or water supply 'tests'. For the updating of the catastal details I can see a logic in the origiinal tecnico being involved, but I cannot believe that it is mandatory.

As far as this tax on foreign properties goes, apparently Brussels have been persuaded to look at its legitimacy. There are two grounds put forward: firstly the suggestion that the proposals favour investment in ½ûÂþÌìÌà property over investment in foreign property, thus contravening capital movements EU laws, (personally I can't see this argument getting past the starting post), but the second position is slightly more iinteresting, and if it gets anywhere it is the sort of situation in which many forum members will find themselves. The reasoning is particular to foreigners, now resident in Italy, who retained a house in their native country (purchased prior to their arrival in Italy) which could be considered their 'prima casa' outside Italy. Again, my personal view is that this will pass Brussels scrutiny (if only because if anybody knows EU law inside out it is Monti). Anybody who is resident in Italy is considered tax resident, unless they can prove to the satisfaction of the tax authorites that they spend less than 182 days a year in Italy. Thus ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs with property abroad, just like British or Americans or Moldovans with property abroad will if resident in ItalyÌýbe obliged to pay. The only allowable deduction is (in the case of the UK) council tax. As to the valuation of the house, the amount chosen above all else is the last registered transaction price. This is potentially mega unfair, if you bought your five bed Georgian in Chelsea in 1964 you'll be quids in, but the Moldovan badante who has a family home which has never been formally transacted will have to pay 0,76% of market value. The three bed semi in Manchester bought in 2007 will almost certainly set you back more than the Chelsea pad.Ìý Things might get tweaked before December 2012, but I suspect this one is going to happen in a form close to the original proposal. By the way, it relates to any real estate - commercial or industrial as well as residential. Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý

Kompass do a lot of carte turistiche (predominantly for northern regions) at 1:50,000 (equivalent to one inch to the mile) which are quite brilliant. Up to date and with hiking and bicycling trails marked on them. Their websiteÌýÌýisn't the most brilliant thing in the world, but with perseverence you should be able to discover whether your zone is covered by their maps. Often the map comes with a useful small guide book (in many languages, including English). They cover quite a lot of Umbria and some of Le Marche, but that's about as far south as they go (last time I looked). The military ones, at least for my area, are IMO pretty useless as a map to follow on foot (although most interesting to study as a historical document) because they are very old, and boringly black and white,

I tend to agree with mbc, the price doesn't seem out of order (it is quite a large area at 230sqm, say eqivalent to eight 'standard' British drives). Depending on the sort of stone you are using for the top layer it's possible you could get the price down by a couple of thousand. You will probably also to have to add IVA (VAT) to the price of the work, but you'll have to consult with your geometra or the builder to establish at what rate (could vary between 4, 10, and 21%). I'd also run the need for a permission past the geometra just in case you do need one.

If you are not a resident you should have been paying an annual tax called ICI, as well as your rubbish tax. It is quite possible you didn't know about this, and bills are not sent out - you are just expected to know when and how much you should pay. If this is the case then you should pay up (almost certainly directly to the comune). The 'fines' for late payment are quite modest and will be included in the 'demand' which you have received. If it is a demand for the rubbish tax which you have already paid, the best person to sort this out is a commercialista (accountant). It isn't the sort of snag in which you would involve a solicitor. Alternatively, if your rubbish tax bills are anything like mine, there is plenty of room for confusion - you may perhaps have only paid 1/3 of your dues each year because you didn't get out the magnifying glass to examine the bolettini!

These are simply my personal thoughts, and I rather doubt that I fall into any typical holidaymaker category. If I want to explore Rome, I want to do it 24 hrs a day: the thought of nipping back to some safe haven in the hours in which the capital is relatively free of tourists seems to me to be bizarre. However, if I was unwisely attempting to enthuse young children with the culture and architecture of Rome, then being able to promise them a pool would be a useful sweetener. How child friendly are you intending to make this venture?

I was under the impression that December 8 would occur on that date, because of its religious status (though this year it falls on a Saturday so it won't make much difference). On this basis I thought May 1 would move to a Sunday, but probably the PD knocked that one on the head, and similarly with June 2 (again, this year it falls on a Saturday). It is very difficult (it seems to me) to get a definitive answer on what's happening this year, and probably even more tricky to work it out for 2013.