½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

I too, have declared my lack of interest in this forum, and made my goodbyes....it's actually quite difficult to keep it up, and I'll wager that some post or other will get your fingers to the keyboard again, and you'll end up returning  despite yourself!

You really do need to have a good idea of what the whole apartment might fetch, today - so the advice to get an independent valuation is spot on. Bear in mind, if the valuation disappoints you, that maybe you paid too much in the heady days of five or six years ago. Then, to discourage you further, the valuation of 'one third of an apartment' will be considerably less than one third of the value of the apartment. Think about it rationally - would you buy one third of an apartment occupied by two other co-owners with whom you have no rapport? Sometimes, one just has to accept that something which seemed a good idea at the time simply has to be walked away from. I hope you don't lose too much money - but peace of mind and not having something like this gnawing at you is priceless.

To buy a car, and register it in your name, you absolutely must be a resident, inscribed on your comune of residence anagrafe,  (at this point in time). However, making the decision to rescind your residency, while still being the proprietor of an ½ûÂþÌìÌà reg car: I'm inclined to thnk this scenario has not hit the motorizazzione radar, and I don't see any route by which it would hit the PRA radar. Interesting times. If you happen to be a resident (on the anagrafe) in Italy, who does not spend more than 183 days a year within ½ûÂþÌìÌà boundaries, then you are in the fortunate position of being able to argue (assuming you can prove your absence from Italy for more than 183 days) that you are not tax resident, and still have an IT reg car (IMO). It is only the presumption, that being resident,  (aka on the anagrafe) which is made that you are tax resident, and so the ball ends in your court to demonstrate that you are not (if you can legitimately prove this). Of course, on the other hand, if you rescind your residency but continue to live in Italy for more than half the year, you are still within the ½ûÂþÌìÌà tax 'net'. You might not be challenged immediately, but remember you have things like an electricity meter (to which the fiscal authorities have immediate access) and if you say "wasn't me, mate, using that juice" they are going to challenge you to provide a rental contract (on which you'll have to pay tax!)

Yes - you must have some irrevocable agreement about what to do about late arriving guests. Texting is probably best, assuming the visitors are on a non ½ûÂþÌìÌà mobile - otherwise you could be kicking your heels for many hours. I've never done changeovers, nor had a rental house, but if I did I'm certain I'd use a laundry service rather than expecting my hired hand to cope with ironing sheets. Surely it's going to cost more than €7 in labour (the charge my local laundry makes for a pair of double sheets) to iron these things to the same standard as the steam tables they use in laundries? And you'll not be using your own water (maybe in short supply) or your own electricity, or have the problem of getting sheets to dry on a wet November day.

There is a bit of a myth about this 3KW supply (I live happily with it, despite my 2.5KW kettle!) Anyway: if you are resident, and have a resident tariff, and only have a 3KW contract, you get reasonably cheap electricity. If (even as a resident) you opt for 6KW, you move onto a different tariff, and it is only about 2 Euro (a month) cheaper to be a resident or a non resident (because the residency only affects the standing charge). So, if you cannot cope with 3KW (as a non resident) it really isn't worth trying to do this - the inconvenience is going to be greater than the small extra charge for having 6KW available. And - (maybe this is why my Kenwood 2.5KW kettle never trips anything) - it's a contractual deal, you promise not to use more than 3KW - but there is a little bit of generosity, and you can use 4.5KW for a few minutes withhout anything tripping. If you have a hefty kettle, it will let you make tea before ENEL have even noticed anything amiss, just because it heats up in milliseconds! I really don't think getting stressed about electricity prices in Italy (as a standard user) is an issue. Other energy prices (gas, gasolio) are way out of any UK experience - not only because these products are expensive in Italy, but because often ½ûÂþÌìÌà houses lack any insulation, or intelligence on the part of the installer of the (conventional) central heating system.

Deleted by Fillide because bad information!

It is good that Penny has flagged this up, and there have been a number of clarifications since the subject was first discussed. In fact, we were supposed to hear this week about an extension of the date for making the declaration, but it hasn't come through yet. If the tax is not paid on time the potential fine is not 40%, but 4% for being just a bit late (that's not a change, just a clarification). BUT. Here is a link to a recent IlSole24Ore piece (that's the ½ûÂþÌìÌà nearest equivalent to the FT,  in other words it is a very authoratitive newspaper). It is made clear here that the UK Council Tax is NOT deductible from the tax due in Italy. "Caso a parte è il Regno Unito, in quanto la Council Tax non è scomputabile dall'Ivie dovuta, non essendo un'imposta patrimoniale ma un'imposta sui servizi." I can see legal challenges to this, if you study the table associated with the article it does seem ridiculous that properties in different EU countries are treated in such diverse ways. The most worrying thing about this seems to be the complete lack of understanding by ½ûÂþÌìÌà commercialistas. One  non ½ûÂþÌìÌà friend was firmly assured by his commercialista that this only applied to ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs with property abroad, and I suggested he asked the commercialista to research further. The commercialista did this, and changed his mind.

Look - I've said it before - it is competely impossible and futile to cover all bases - which you are tryng to do. Who knows, when you get here, what the satellite/terrestrial options are going to be, or whether any of that stuff is going to be necessary when everything comes down the phone line or through a tiddly little microwave horn. If you want to feel future proofed, just ask the elctrician for a predisposition - which means he'll run a tube down from the roof to a box in the house. Then - if you need an aerial, or if you need a dish, there will be a tube to put the relevant cable into - you will probably never use it, but it won't have cost a lot. Basta   

Interesting thread. I'm a bit fixated on names for things, and IMO you can learn nouns (outside Italy) by reading mags like Gente or Oggi. Verbs you can (in the initial stages) trundle along using just a few verbs (potere, volere, dovere) as well as the obvious essere and avere - just like you learned French in school - compounding them is easy. But (IMO) the biggest difficulty is if you are tied into an English speaking partner. That means you'll have Sky TV, and ninety percent of the time you'll be speaking English between yourselves. You probably won't even go to the shops alone, and other shoppers and cashiers will be intimidated by hearing English (or Dutch or German) spoken so they won't be inclined to respond in a 'normal' way.. Again, IMO, forget all this stuff about the passato remoto - I rarely see it used in serious newspapers - and if you can cope with fu and ebbe that's more than enough for literature. Coping with 'io fo' isn't rocket science in Tuscany - just get stuck in and respond like a human being to anything thrown at you. It's an absurd ambition to be thought of as a native ½ûÂþÌìÌà - it will never happen - but just bask in the glory of being a native English speaker: now that is realistically (again, not wishing to give offence) IMO your greatest attribute. If, perchance, your ambition is to translate obscure ½ûÂþÌìÌà texts, then fine - learn everything about grammattical perfections - but if you just want to crack on in the bar about how Catholicism or Berlusconi influence Itallian politics, I'd say the present tense and the past imperfect are quite enough. If you want to engage in 5S, maybe the future tense (magari future conditional)  would be handy. I suppose what I'm saying is that you need first to understand what sort of discussion you are engaging in before getting pedantic about ½ûÂþÌìÌà grammar. (Okay, I'll shut up now!)

Beeryspice seems to me to be a madman. However, he has an opinion which we mght agree or disagree with, but please let us not put him into the clearly bannable Ms. Belsito category. I'm (philosocphcially) addicted to non censorship, but I would shut that fucker (Ms Belsito) up without compucntion