½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Fillide, late vocations are nothing new. In the Jesuit order, both their founder, St Ignatius de Loyola and also St Francis Borgia were late comers to the Church and before that, they led lives which were not very "pious".  I also understand that the Archbishop entered the priesthood after a personal tragedy. that is quite common. After going through some type of ordeal, they hear "the call". In any case, he will have great management skills and these will be very useful in his new position. I guess that it was an awkward situation for the British Royal Family and I do not know whether many members have attended previous inaugurations. I am also pretty certain that the Duke of Norfolk was there as well. I am sure that relations between the two churches will be very close in the future. At least, the Pope will like that.

Alanh, I guess that you are talking about these events that are related to the 100 Years War I think that it would be very different to compare these conflicts. Perhaps, we should think at the consequences of the Turin Treaty of 1860, when Italy, represented in this case by the King of Sardinia, as this was before unification, had to hand over to France both Nice and Savoy. This case will be more relevant to this forum, although a new thread should be started as it has nothing to do with the original topic of the thread. For those interested in History and particularly European Wars and disputes, I recommend you to have a look at a most decisive event which marked European history and that is at the core of some of the most terrible wars we had to endure: The division of the Carolingian Empire and in particular the Lotharingian kingdom, which seems to be at the centre of all conflicts since the IX Century !!!!! Steve, I would tend to agree with you in that these struggles for territory are not needed and should be Ancient History by now. I would add that religion gets the blame for many of these; however, if you analize the reasons behind all these wars and conflicts you will find that they are part of a struggle for material power that has very little to do with religion's true nature. "Thou shall not kill", simple as that. I think that this particular thread is now finished. Its purpose was to clarify some false accusations that have been made against Pope Francis. I have simply given facts and shown you the two sides of the coin, because there are always two sides in everything and we should carefully study them before passing on judgement. I am not taking sides in any conflict, but, as I already said, I wished to clarify matters and give everyone a larger perspective on some issues. To wear blinkers is not a very helpful to anyone and fanaticism, in any of its forms, clouds our thinking and our opinions. My last comment will be on the new Archbishop of Canterbury. who seems to be a very nice person Pope Francis has sent him his congratulations and prayers and I am certain that the two will work very well together.

These articles will interest you, Fillide. They are on Pope Francis and atheists and Muslims. Sorry, Alanh, I have to go now to attend a morning coffee-birthday celebration of a dear friend. I will give you my answer in the afternoon.

Ram, if you had previous ownership of a territory and you were expelled in 1833 by an invading force from a country that had previously renounced to it, who does not consider it part of its own territory (but the Falkland Islands Company) until recently andd does not grant citizenship to people born in the island until after a war (1983) and you conduct a referendum where the obvious answer is "yes" because there is no option, and the territory is on your own continental shelf.... I am afraid that you have not read both sides of the dispute. And I stress that I am not condoning the Argentine invasion. in my opinion, Gibraltar should be given back Gibraltar and Spain should return Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco. Taiwan is part of a political dispute amongst Chinese people, totally different. And both Palestine and Israel should get their own territories and stop fighting. Countries should not be colonies, or undercover colonies. It is an anachronism. And I thought that you did notlike us to discuss anything that was not related to Italy... 

I believe that we will all be surprised, Fillide and he is really trying hard to introduce changes. He may even surprise the Cardinals who elected him... unless they were desperately seeking someone who would turn things around... which is always a possibility. The choice of name is most interesting. And I am also delighted with that. It is also interesting that he favours to be called Bishop of Rome.  It is obvious that his approach will be totally ecumenical, but the most important thing is that he is a caring man and that his love will extend to everyone, whether believers or non-believers. And this will also include atheists 

Maggi, the referendum was an exercise in futility. The result was known before it took place. The inhabitants, who were granted British citizenship after the war, in 1983 to be precise, would only vote to remain British. The large majority are of British ancestry with the exception of a handful of Chileans, who traditionally hate the Argentinians. It would be like holding a referendum in China and ask its population whether they would like to become Japanese or Bulgarian. This is the sort of thing that makes relations between the two countries more difficult. On the other hand, more initiatives like this one are needed to heal wounds on both sides:

Maggi, I was fearing that this issue was going to be raised, mainly because it may prompt more discussions and also because some members may object by saying that this topic does not concern Italy; however, here is what I know and I will leave it up to everyone to raise their own conclusions. I do know that this is a UK based site and that the majority of members are British and have their own position on the issue, but allow me to give you some details about both sides of the story. First of all, take into account that Argentinians consider the Malvinas as rightly theirs. They learn this from a very early age. It gets repeated throughout their education and Jorge Bergoglio was born and educated in Argentina. It may be important, at this stage, to have a look at a well balanced account of the dispute which clearly states each side's position and arguments: You would be able to realise that it was very easy for the Argentinian military junta to launch the country into a war. They hoped that this war will not only serve as a smoke screen to their crimes and failures but that it would also unite Argentinians, who were going through a real civil war at the time. They were so convinced about this that they had no worries enrolling their ennemies, the Montoneros, the same people they tortured and killed to help in an operation that went wrong: The whole war was a terrible mess and the Argentine side was devastated. The problems of the veterans, who are highly traumatised not only by the conflict but mainly by the treatment of their own military officers has been dramatic. They lack everything and the majority live under very difficult conditions: Now, if you were an Argentinian and the Cardinal-Archbishop of Buenos Aires, what would you say to them in the homily? That they were used and abused? No, that they were doing their duty in fighting on behalf of their homeland. That's what anyone would expect. Cristina Kirchner tried to score points when she visited the now Pope Francis by giving him a letter asking for his support. That would have also been expected of her, keeping in mind the type of person she is and her "penchant" for doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. There is a big gap between the Kirchner government and the Pope and they are the ones behind all the lies that circulate; however, she forgot an important point, she was no longer talking to Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio Cardinal-Archbishop of Buenos Aires and an Argentine citizen, she was talking to Pope Francis, who has no nationality and will use a Vatican passport to travel. And Pope Francis cannot take sides on this issue. He will only intervene to try to reconciliate both sides, as this is his new role. As I have given you plenty of facts about this topic, allow me to mention a last point. The love-hate relationship between the UK and Argentina is nothing new. Did you know about the failed invasions of Argentina by Britain which took place in the XIX Century? From the horse's mouth: Both Britain and Argentina have issues to settle; however, I am confident that sanity would prevail and if Pope Francis has to intervene, it would be to try to find final peace for both sides. And for those who may not be aware of what we are talking about, here is the piece of news:

Fillide, the history of the Papacy is full of saucy stories, remember the Borgias. Fortunately, it is all in the past and I trust that it will stay there. As I keep on saying, the Church is made up of imperfect - and some very naughty - human beings. Saints and sinners, the whole spectrum.

Alan, I forgot to answer one of your questions. I am not the only one who knows Pope Francis intentions. You only have to look at what he has consistently done and said throughout his life and what he keeps on saying now. There is plenty of information on the Web and he is living proof of his philosophy. You only have to take a non-partisan approach.

Alan, if you Google "Pope ennemies" looking not only at the NYC Post entry, you will find plenty of articles saying the same thing. And if you speak several languages, as I do, you will find the same information repeated with the same data. NOw, the British press prefers to concentrate on other type of news. They are only proving their ignorance and hidden agenda. Ram, sorry But we are talking about something related to Italy. As far as I know, the Vatican is right in the middle Rome and not in Kuala Lumpur. The POpe is also the Bishop of Rome and this is the title that he likes the most. Pope Bergoglio is also of Piamontese origins. I know that it is nt a topic that you particularly like, but I do and there are always other topics that I maynot be interested in, which I still discuss. As I said, I thought that it was a matter of conscience to inform that all those allegations were part of a smearing campain by the current Argentine government that happens to hate Pope Francis because he had told them that they ore not doing what they should to help the large amount of poor people in the country.