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maybe think on this a bit.. although i realise human loss is terrible the kennels at alba adriatica were flooded.. no point commenting on the fact that it seems a starnge place to site it..or even that someone should have been there to let them all out.. 100 dogs dead..   from facebook and another friend of mine are the details of the efforts still needed to help with those that were rescued and need food and blankets.. and dare i say even adoption to get them out of the place long term.. there are pictures included in the appeal via ANTA ONLUS ..   they are involved in the care of all animals here not just domestic.. anyway maybe if you have your own facebook page there might be urgent appeals being made locally if not then this place needs help here is an intersting  article that came out in 2009 wher the figures are that 99 % of comunes in marche are at risk from water problems... ie floods / landslides.. with varying levels of risk.. one of the main reasons is the over development where back in the 60s 92 % of the land was zoned as agricultural now its just 69 % a loss equivalent to 229 thousand hectares.. thats from 2009 .. 2 years on i guess its even more thats been built over.. cementification..  what i do find funny is how these reports are never acted upon..  one wonders why they bother.. not even figured into emergency planning .. its not just the marche .. its all Italy and the world.. its just when happening near you you wonder why people carry on acting so blindly.. now the sea is full of chemicals and other things washed off the land.. blue flag beaches will not mean much this year i would think.. at this rate the Adriatic will end up a dead sea much as the med is...

the main teramo coastal road called the teramo mare.. finished a couple of years back if that.. these photos form a face book friends page and the comments say it all to my mind..  they have made underpasses with no capacity to allow drainage away.. so basically creating watre storage sites on the main road.. today Teramo had its first death when a body was found there in the underpass.. i like facebook .. it brings you so much news and opinions from where you are based .. in fact for local news and locals opinions there is no better way of keeping up with things when you live here.. the teramo mare is a sort of local joke in its fragility and bad construction .. its fallen to bits so many times since it was built it has left the old road more used now then when this new road was built..

the problems to my mind can be easily put to rest as regards old practices when you consider just a few months back someone died of mad cows disease here.. why.. because she had been infected during the main outbreak and as they said at the time they just did not know how long it would take for all the people infected to show signs and die from the disease.. Italy had a very limited problem..and i am not saying that its a high risk just that we have created many more dieases which are very hard to detect or kill off and human waste spread across fileds or even animal waste which used to come from animals who got occaisional medical assistance to kill a disease were the norm.. now they are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics from birth and their waste never sees a field its washed into slurry tanks.. so consider the new dangerous diseases amongts humans and the medicines they take to control them or kill them off.. and wonder if someone visting your house has a problem that has not been detected and then you spread it around your veg patch.. i know unlikely and i do not spend my life worrying about what might or might not happen.. but the truth is that what people said in the old days was a lot of rubbish.. and its there belief that a bit of rubbish did no damage to anyone that led to rivers in the UK or here in Italy becoming vast open waste systems that killed of all life within until someone came to the conclusion that old habits could not continue unless we all agreed that human life needed to end.. so now we have rivers that fish swim in and seas that will maybe slowly recover enough to allow us to fish in again and eat produce from the seas that does not kill us..  so like it or not.. Italy does have very good and strict rules about waste disposal and any new system has to completely fall within those standards.. and any system that ghas to be replced has to then conform.. any old system will gradually have to be replaced.. its how new laws work.. it would be impossible to change them all at one time.. however the day is arriving where all old fashioned cess pits and sewerage tanks will have to go.. our rubbish tax has gone up tremendously and we all complain but we have collections of rubbish now which are seperated.. our water cgharges have gone up because we pay for sewrage waste treatment now within the bill according to consumption.. now i complain much as anyone.. but i also want to be able to go and swim in the sea without catching some disease or eat river trout... or seafood from the adriatic coast..  so the price.. its pretty simple .. and not really that problematic if we want our children to be able to carry on living on this planet.. to me this is a sort of no brainer arguement.. and how old people did things.. well we can thank them for leaving us the cost of starting to clean it all up... for the next generation..

re fitting windows and builders.. in general what happens unless you already have a modern fitment or are using a carpenter to refurbish is that the complete window including frame is removed..  the plaster then knocked back to a place where the new frame can be fitted.. cannot remember the technical name for the hanging frame.. but this is a carefully squared off frame that is fitted solidlyinto the wall that then is hidden behind the actual visble window frame..  so what happens is that this functional strong frame requires deep holes behind it to allow fittings to be cemented in place.. the whole opening with new frame is then finished off up to a finishing coat of plaster.. because when your windows arrive they are then fitted onto these structural frames.. sorry its not so clear to explain..but it does mean that outside and inside plaster work need to be made good .. and to be honest when you start knocking off plaster to fit new windows its not very precise and huge areas end up needing to be made good .. why i would ignore internal shutters apart from the function of heat retention and cold prevention is that they are remarkably useless in using in a daily living sense.. say in the summer you slepp with windows open.. that means when the sun arrives you have no method of keeping light out unless you get up and shut the windows with attached shutters.. day time siestas.. well you just have to shut windows once more.. in the stiffling heat.. spring days when air in your house is nice.. your choice is wide open windows or shut.. blowey days means windows banging everywhere.. why external shutters work better..  for as start they do not hang off the windows.. they can be regulated.. ie there is a control on the side which allows them to be open to allow air in or light..whilst remaining closed.. therefore your internal windows can remain wide open protected from gusts of strong winds and also allowing you to feel able to sleep at night and yet in the morning small rays of light filter in.. same with day time.. your room does not have to be pitch black with shutters closed to keep cool .. you regulate the outside shutters to allow light in but keep the strong direct sunlight off.. hence indooor windows can be open allowing measured air and light so the room does not become a sauna.. this system also allows for easy fitting of insect screens between windows and shutters.. so your insect screens on roller blinds remain in place even when the strongest winds blow.. to be honest it maybe all sounds a bit obsessive.. but living in a house comfortably really means being able to control direct light and air and keep out very cold and very hot.. the shutters when fully in the closed position have almost no air allowed through or light.. and if you touch the inside of them in the summer in the middle of a hot day then you will feel the benefit of whta they are protecting you from.. and really the idea of sleeping in a room that has no air because you cannot open windows seems almost medieval to me.. the other point is that modern windows also allow you to have two methods of opening.. i would suggest you work out one like that for the kitchen,bathroom and for the living area and your main bedroom.. they then can be opened either from the sides as usual.. so that both windows swing into the house.. or turn the central handle a step further and one window will remain shut whilst the other one opens from the top allowing air in... they cost more which is why i suggest working out where you will want them.. but it allows you to have the ability to open a window in the sense that you use in england.. you know the little windows at the top when you want small currents of air or want to leave the house but have air circulating with it secure .. so complicated.. bet you didnt realise it was such a thrilling subject with so many choices..

i think its good to be aware despite it most probably being unlikely but i do know its happened to a few people that sewrage..human or otherwise being used on land or being allowed to seep into it is illegal here in Italy.. so an existing old fashioned cesspit can carry  on under the law doing whatever it did in the past but once you make a change to it in anyway it then becomes illegal because any intervention has to be according to law... which means no land contamination allowed..  throwing untreated human waste on to the land used to be safe.. people did not take antibiotics,, or whatever else was available..  other much more nasty things are now in our bodies .. so all human waste has to be treated and all people that remove waste without accounting for it are acting without the law.. and the fines are gigantic..so costs vary because the cost of treating varies.. anyway the forestale are the ambient police.. and if they find any problems it will cost a lot more essentially.. and really important is that Italy is a country that relies a lot on sourcing water fromn various local springs and wells...  to provide our water.. should it become contaminated.. they check these wells every month or so then should you be the cause or part of it..then you are pretty well likely to not have enough money to avoid prison.. certainly keep your house..  the forestale drive around our village at least once a week..  a sort of normal patrol that you think of as them out for a restful drive.. however these people are just drivng around looking for signs of people doing things wrong..protecting us .. and if you read newpapers here ..of the local type or watch local news there is not often a day that goes past without someone being caught.. in general farmers ..or rural properties where levels of contamination in river water or local springs has led forestale police to a source.... and thence a prosecution...

glad to finally see someone make the case for paint not being expensive..  it really is not .. you go to one of the normal paint shops.. basically all they sell and choose a tub of white emulsion paint that is not a named brand.. ask them prices.. they will have various brands.. take a photo or whatever of the color you want and they will scan it in to a computer and give you back a tub of paint.. of the exact color.. keep the coding as you might want to mx the same color again..  so you now have a huge pot of paint... might cost 20-30 euro for is it 25 kg of paint.. cannot remember exactley..  you then need to buy at least one clean bucket.. they sell them in the paint shops of about the same size.. because on the instructions of the original paint bucket it will tell you to dilute it with sometimes up to 50 % of water so you are buying a huge amount of paint and depending on the porisity of your wall.. is that a word .. it will go a very long way...i would imagine about three tubs will do it.. but for sure buy a fixer to mix in.. its good for the priming coats and makes the surface much better to take paint...  i suggest using paint with the fixer coat although you can put it on by itself.. well mixed with water again because depending on what you are painting over three coats of paint will be needed .. minimum i would say..   i see your posting is from the marche and i would think  you might get several useful pms offering help with where to buy and if lucky an enteprising individual who knowqs the ropes there will even offer to do this for you.. with windows... the job will maybe involve removing all the old frames and then basically use measure up and fit new hanging frames which will be fixed into the walls and then all the new window fittings will get attached to that... including shutters and insect screens.. again this is a specialist job.. and shop.. and in general your own builder would be fitting the hanging frames in conjunction with the window supplier because a lot of the work is done and finished when the windows in their various stages are being fitted.. it has to be done very precisely .. if there are no restrictions on what you can use i would go with aluminium in whatever color you like and are allowed..  and i would add everything from the outside shutters to the insect screens .. its cheaper than wood for sure.. although the aluminium / wood option is the most expensive choice of the aluminium solution ... but i do not see the sense as aluminium looks fine to my mind is very easy to clean and has no maintenance...   however all the works you are talking about leave me thinking that paint is the last of your jobs many months away yet.. sandblasting is a specialist job and filthy.. in a place such as you describe i would also make sure your electrics are safe and plumbing and central heating is in good shape..  all retro work on these system especially electrics will involve placing cabling into the wall with lots of dust and rubble and plaster work needing to be fixed..  putting in new windows for sure will entail huge amounts of dust and rubble and cement spalshes and replastering both internal and external walls...around the holes.. my thoughts will be to slow down..  if you have bought the place and you have to go ahead on a tight budget then pretty well forget whoever you have been dealing with in the purchase part.. someone has obviously given you very limited information on whats involved in building works here.. if it was the agent  and they knew your budget then best to move on from them and start building up your own network.. marche is full of useful and helpful people it seems to me.. although just because they are co nationals does not make them all honest so talk to a few and get a feel for what is going on.. they will know the wide boys in both the ex pat community and the local italian population.. anyway forget about paint.. get the essential work done first.. paint is the last job.. you will also find that when you fit windows that are efficient and cut of the air that used to come into the house that there will likely be damp problems and black mold.. i would not consider painting a house that had been opened to the elements for at least a yera after its been sealed.. damp could well involve just outside work with removing earth or adding french drains or could require inside intervention.. or both.. so see little sense if you do spend what you have been quoted by painters on throwing that amount of money into a project until you are very sure that evcerything is finsihed and ready ... besides.. you might need that sum for other more essential things.. like i say electrics.. as the house does not seem to have been kept up to date with new regulations.. anyway.. sorry for spelling .. am sure there are mistakes .. but the info has none.. and good luck... oh yes interior shutters.. to my mind at least a useless additio which serves nothing apart from adding costs.. they save virtually nothing in terms of thermal valuse....... and should only be added if you are in an area where they insist windows are restored to a look or its a building that justifies this because of a historical value.. which to be honest with stone house two a penny here actually bying a property with any real significance in a country with a leaning tower , a coliseum and enough roman junk lying around to keep everyone happy would be quite a find.. so if you are allowed treat your rustic property as a home to be comfortable in and use all the best modern methods to arrive at that point.. some people might say that doing a sympathetic restoration will ensure the property has more value.. not true.. there are hundreds of marche properties that are for sale which cannot be sold at a price to cover the money put in..  use simple modern solutions.. if you can and above all with the way the world is use alternatives to  gas and electrics..  if you can.. use the most efficient windows because thats going to be the biggest cost here.. heating and keeping cool your place.. which is why i say outside shutters if allowed.. they add protection and retain heat in the winter and keep things cool in the sunmmer.. if you cannot afford sandblasting and a new efficient boiler or alternative energy supply .. either solar panels or bio boilers ..then skip sandblasting and go with the energy solution.. maybe insulate the roof.. instead.. insulation is the beginning of all energy solutions.. turned into a lecture.... sorry.. but Italy is reliant on imported energy.. alternative solutions are available but cost .. vist anyones house here and you will find their idea of life is living in one heated room the rest of the house cold and damp.. bedrooms places where you add clothes not take them off to go to sleep.. a few people understand this.. and had the funds to do things right because they understood that they wanted to enjoy living here..  they use alternative solutions.. but the main principle that everyone would most probably agree with is conserve what you put into a building..if its heat.. and protect from the outside be it cold or heat.. then you will have a comfortable life here.. which you will enjoy and not have to give in because it all costs so much or is just so miserable living in a smelly kitchen, the only warm room..

this forum is still worth it just to read replies of this calibre..  a perfect put down with no rancour.. wish i could write so well.. or even spell.. just when you think its all the same depresing stuff... just improved my day.. which started off not so well as i bothered turning on the news..wished i hadnt.. but thoughts are with lots of people in places that are really struggling today with natural and man made problems.. i feel lucky to be living here ...

excellent reply from ram..  depressing in its truth... you just know that those elected under this system will never vote for change to it..   you only need to serve i believe 2 years and a day.. something like that and you gain a full pension.. you will note that most governments here do not fall until that period is passed..used to be shorter...  political parties are virtually guranteed an income via grants which is why there are so many.. living on one of the highest salaries is not enough for most.. they then set up their own party .. then newspaper .. another guaranteed money spinner.. based on distribution not sales... a reason why they are given away for free.. they just have to be printed to get the grant..

its good to see such a balanced view from the second poster who obviously has a good grasp on the real situation and proposes quite a level headed question in a situation where it seems the press in Italy has none of the balance of this post Termonti knows from past traitorous behaviour that it lethal for a political career to go behind the back of a leader..  and in a sense he is very comfortable as a second in command and would he make a good leader.. am not sure ... he might be just too bright .. although i have seen him change a lot to a very relaxed and often quite humorous character.. would love to see him in charge the fini,casini,rutelli so called new party is filled with politicians of at leat twenty years in parliament and have all very dubious pasts from the money taken from rome... to strange criminal partners and apartments being sold off.. to a very close mafia connection.. even worse to my mind the controlling influence of the vatican...  the left.. hampered by the fear of Bersani that Vendola will be elected the leader is now sending out peace pacts to all and sundry to appear like an electable alternative.. coalitions from as far apart as the IDV and the PC and UDC being proposed which would all mean an electable government in numbers but a nonsense in the form of a majority that would be able to do anything as they would end up arguing about everthing and would soon fail.. much like the last Prodi government its very true that for Italy this is a very dangerous time because the powers aligned against the elected government are non elected and non democratic.. despise Berlusconi as you will but his downfall now will be the direct result of an intellectual left wing magistrature and a moralistic vatican cei... both of which are a far more dangerous threat to democratic process here and if they are seen to suceed in this god help the country..  bindi is like a female pope preaching to all and sundry over the power of women whilst approaching it from a side where her view of what women should be is stay at home and pray every evening for gods guidance and accept that as a woman you are not free to express yourself in any other way than as a dutiful wife or daughter..  god help her if she ever met an essex laddette.. is that the right word.. she is demonising the whole sense that woman who choose to behave in a certain way are on the dark side ... her next role will maybe be a missionary to fonts of all evil like london or new york where she will preach on the streets against women having one night stands or drinking pints...   this is the true battle going on now.. and Berlsuconi is not the best person to represent the other side.. i wish he had reigned as leader before this started and let Tremonti or Alfano or the education minister.. Gelmini .. i think take the lead.. what is eveident in all this that the only party doing well and seen to be serious about Italy is the lega nord.. about to offer candidates in many places outside of the north and with coalitions of other regional parties in the south i would not be suprised if they did well... sadly this government which has led Italy through this world crisis to arrive to this point will not be remebered for any of the good.. no bank failures, no housing crisis and no de rating of its economey by world finance gurus.. after germany and france the strongest economey in europe..  with a tax level higher than most thanks to the last prodi government but which has been maintained by this one.. but which ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs remember well and which will make a left wing government here unacceptable as everyone knows they will add to the tax burden again in order to fund their own pockets.. Berlusconi might well be ridiculed abroad but ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs know the alternatives hidden in sheeps clothing are even worse and that everytime they are elected Italy becomes a state where the sun never shines and all is grey and miserable..     

i like this site ... thats if you can get through the details but it has pretty up to date pricings..but you need to spend time and find the right details for you.. regarding costs... you can reduce them if you want to be involved by channeling out and replastering after the wiring is installed.. to be honest you cannot compare UK installation costs because here the wiring has to go through or laid into solid walls.. you channel out and then insert flexible tubing.. again if you feel confident you can do this too.. well and have the time.. the difficulty will be if you have to go through meter wide walls.. you will need a drill and a bit capable of that..  i agree with comments about setting the system up properly and allowing for extension into the downtstairs  area i would go for seperate breaker boxes for each floor .. and they are very simple..  one breaker each for lights and sockets... you will maybe need a higher rated breaker for an electric oven.. i would also add in bewteen the mains switch and the breakers an input socket with alternate switch to allow for an alternative input..either via solar as already mentioned or more often required a generator system... make sure its convenient to allow a generator to work under cover whilst supplying current... channeling out will in general be included in the pricing but often because the electrician will not do the work tidying up.. refilling channels and around boxes will nor be priced in.. so if you are not able to do this make sure its priced.. the system means that the electrician walks around the house with you and  will draw on the walls.. what goes where.. its quite easy to then follow his diagram and do the work yourself.. always allowing long curves instead of right angles so that the wires will thread through easily... you then put in the flexi tubing.. make sure its large enough and then fix it with cement .. the sockets and light swithches will also have to have boxes inserted into the walls.. which will hold the outside fittings which are visble.. then these are covered with plates to finish.. agin the plates are very easy to sap on yourself.. which can reduce costs.. you will also find light fittings are left with just wires hanging and you have to fit the bulb holders.. dont look for any constant amongst wire colors.. the only one is the earth wire..negative and pos can be any color.. and it does not matter how they connect to appliances..or light fittings...   sockets .. aimd for doble sockets and have the two varieties.. there are maybe more.. which allows for both sorts of plugs available here.. although there now do quite a variety which allows all plugs to fit... for downstairs i would suggest that you get the feed to a breaker box fed in..at least... and maybe a reliable socket.. this will alow you to work down there safely.. and anyway the unsafe older system will be cut off most probably so a few lights will be essential i would think... all comments regarding certificates are valid... and using a certified italian electrician will be essential.... you will not even be allowed to wire in a new gas boiler here if its doest meet the requirements...