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Ìýof course we have the old covered market...but its pretty dismal.. the building is nice but it sort of stopped really being the real thing ages ago.. the weekly market like most in Italy is a sad affair of mainly chines stalls selling cheap clothes.. but..there is a revival of all that is good porta romana now has a weekly farmers market which has been organised by the local farmers union... and that is where to go...people selling what they have produced...Ìýi dont know if the decline of the real market selling real ½ûÂþÌìÌà produce is just a central north thing.. maybe south still preserves more of its local produce...thankfully there is a retro move to try and get back to basic good produce ... and i am glad of that ..we are also lucky because we have a Sunday morning market in a small town called Campli.. one of the most beautiful towns here.. they combine the mix of chinese clothes, muslim run stalls and a few ½ûÂþÌìÌà stalls with all the local shops being open too... its a fun place to go..reading the above its not that i am against the non ½ûÂþÌìÌà people running their stalls .. they offer the best value..and they have as much right as anyone to be doing what they do... but i would like to see more iniative from ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs ...to make and sell , or produce and sell in their own markets...without the forign stalls most markets would be sad palces to be.. and those that are not ½ûÂþÌìÌà have filled gaps left because the probelm seems to me to be ½ûÂþÌìÌà producers just cannot be bothered to sell like that any more.. ...as i said at the start though thankfully its beginning to change backÌý

Ìýi to was puzzled over where my previous answer had gone and wrongly blamed the new forum switch.. i found it since it was tagged on to Maureen teases renovation question and i guess casadiforesta realised how things work and posted again.. which had obviously enlisted more answers maybe even confusion...for lime based plaster is use Marborite.. Ìýits 7.00 euro a bag here.. think its 25 or 30 kg... normal size and it is beautiful to work with..not being skilled in that sense i find it one of the easiest to use products ... however it is colored although if you are going to paint anyway what the heck... and it is a slightly gritty finish...Ìýas a base coat i make my own mortar .. using antique restoration lime.. which is much cheaper and dpending on the thicness i need to achieve start with coarser sand and finish off with fine...then the marborite is skimmed on... . i add cement to the base mixes ..generally 3 parts lime to i part cement.. purists will no doubt frown on this.. but it works for me.. most prepared lime based mixes also have a cement element which to my mind does not hinder the natural breathability of the plaster...Ìýhowever an old wall gets so many problems from the cement finish on the outside... the cement finish on the inside ... the sealing of most airflow with double glazed units and the to cap it all some sort of central heating system that if you do not make the right decisions to start you will be for ever adding chemical solutions as they come on the market for resolving black mould... or even worse crumbling plaster work...there is some physics type thing that explains it all but water will go up inside a wall to a level of 1.20 meters if it is within a sealed tube...ie cement covered old walls with the cement providing the water containment.. it is this first 1.20 that you have to take measures to get right..and as Penny rightly says lime based products are the only solution that works because it means not that the water doesnt go inside the wall it does but not to that height because its always dispersing through the plaster..very gradually so that its not even noticed.. Ìýso the ideal is the whole wall .. but if you have had a wall that is old re done and you are having damp problems i would say the first solution is to remove the plaster from the outside to a height of around 1.20-1.50 ... metres and replace with lime based products... or if its stone and nice looking clear out and repoint with lime based mortar... this basically ruins the law of physics about rising damp because one of the sealed sides has been removed and can often resolve internal damp problems without having to have the inside of the house made a building site again...i also mentioned air brick solutions... they are very common in kitchens.. because of gas...or even boiler rooms.. but they are also good to my mind in all ground level areas ... just make sure you put covers on with nets behind...otherwise the scorpions have a field day...

Ìýplaster in the UK sense is a skimmed coating that is very thin put on generally plaster board... Ìýand is easy to dry out...when it happens here on say old walls...they are stripped of the original loose plasetr work..and then basically a compressor blows a cement mortar mix onto the walls to provide a squared off look.. at places this coast can be maybe an inch or so in depth... then a finishing coast again of a mortar with much finer sand is applied...Ìýthis is finished in circular patterns and is a rustic look.. a more polished finish requires what we in the UK would call plaster...drying times vary from a few months to several.. .. depending not so much on the weather but also more importantly the house... if it has /had damp problems already...Ìýin an old building not designed to have a virtually waterproof coating on internal walls it will never dry... howveer problems are not limited to only old builds... all you have to do is to go in quite a large percentage of ½ûÂþÌìÌà modern buildings and you will find damp patches everywhere... Ìýespecialley at ground lower ground level..it seems acceptable to them...Ìýmany of these problems can be sorted by allowing air flow but this seems a sort of new concept here ...even though you can buy air covers in almost any DIY place to allow breathing blocks/holes in walls.. so i dispute pretty strongly that a house in Italy being sprayed with several layers of cement would dry out in a max of seven days... especially with no air flow

Ìýis that how yoy spell it and will it be deleted anyway for being French...Ìýanyway both i and Penny responded to this before and am not sure why it is now no longer there or even if its the same person posting...ÌýCaroles point to my mind is the most valid re plastering italian style... if its a full restructure job there will be coarse cement sand mixes sprayed onto the wall followed by finer mixes and if you do not wnat the finish Carol has a finer normal plaster coat .. this means hundreds of gallons of water ...well almost held onto your walls slowly drying out..and the quickest way to dry is fresh air...so logical windows go in last ...even if its a damp winter down there ... Ìýairflow is the solution to problems with humidity...by the way my opinion is that ½ûÂþÌìÌà builders do not often do very smooth plaster Ìýfinishes because they are unable too .. skimming is quite skilled and most builders have a wealth of abilities but not plastering so they tend to use the method carol describes ..very fine sand cement mix ..with a dash of lime.. Ìýthis leads to damp in many properties that have not good drainage... Ìýthe other factor is that the builders prefer to do it their way..rather than smooth because if you want smooth they call in another person who can do it who bills you for that work ...hence builder looses a bit of his work so less money for him...Ìýbut as Ram says ...your the boss... contract it the way you want and Sicily or not if they do not do it that way .. dont pay them ...make it clear and definite within the contract... and if you do go windows first then plaster buy a dehumidifier and dry the place up... but it could lead to cracking..ie ..it drys too quickly...

Ìýor however it goes... Ìýanyway you can do it whichever way... Ìýbecause you are the bosswhat would normally be done so your builder is not trying it on is that you would put in the frame that you hang all the window fitments off and then plaster... reason being ... real life measurements taken of the gaps ..for the new windows...so builder cannot be told afterwards he got it all wrong.. but practically a house with lots of airflow dries out so much quicker... the builder also has no worries about damage whilst doing the internal plastering...which here in general means for a property that has unstable walls several sprayed layers of cement mix and then maybe a couple of plaster coats depending on the finish you are looking for.. the amount of water held in all that will make your house like a tropical rain forest if you seal it all in ...Ìýso you will need dehumidifiers running full time...so it can be done ..your builders are not trying it on... because normally it would be the way they say...iÌýÌý

ÌýChiodi is closing the door forever on oil exploration in protected areas of Abruzzo... he was always an environmentalist as president of the province of Teramo.. seems he has kept quite whilst looking for a real and lasting solution.. not just for oil but fo all polluting development... it now has to be passed by the regional parliament

Ìýi got interested after the RAI did a documentray on Basilicata oil development..it came together with me finding this site ÌýÌýÌý Ìýso i wrote about it back then and gave the link..Ìýa couple of members took it seriously i guess... others found it very funny or suggested it would be wonderful for Abruzzoanyway this is the site for the people that had the vision two years back to start action... that have been working ceaselessly ever since in all our names.. Ìýand are people that are from Abruzzo, who have a sole interest in preserving their home.. Ìýagainst corruption and oil development... if i was looking for one place to help through or to get informed on it would be this.. because most of the other groups get it all from them anyway ...ÌýÌýÌý

Ìýsurely its better then for everyone to start smoking if they only cause 15 % they are much safer than the 85 % that dont.. i have managed to stop smoking whilst driving... Ìýseems like i should start Ìýagain...

Ìýanyone here as a professional that is registered has to be a member of an association and when they write contracts the association makes a percentage charge... Ìýthat association generally covers the insurance side as well in respect of public liability, sets standards for their members etc...etc... as Penny says its normal..but it is difficult for foreigners not used to the system to budget because of all these extra charges...so you are right to question it.. and it would be nice sometimes when talking estimates with these people that they were more upfront about total costs at the start...Ìý

Ìýglad you quoted the 60 % of working people.. Ìýthat precludes banks, other national institutions , comunes, people like electricity companies and water companies... Ìýpoliticians of all sorts... Ìýwho are basically what the comment and proposed changes were aimed at Ìý.. so pretty well the non working population ..and i cannot see how reducing their lunch hours would make any difference..they would just extend their coffee breaks...Ìý