��������

If you look back through the posts you will see that the site administrator has suggested just that - not outright ban discussions - but rather that posters exercise discretion when discussing these things.

Thanks for that and I have read that information which I think is very valuable but it seems that one individual can have multiple logins and so can make a huge impact on a company when it is only one person with a beef. This then can unnaturally amplify the size of the problem. I feel that this forum is great with general experences of Italy and how to deal with issues such as registering a car!!!! ( have you ever tried to do that?) but I feel that it should not get to the personal or specifics of naming and shaming as it is impossible to verify the facts.

[QUOTE=Peter England]Thanks for that and I have read that information which I think is very valuable but it seems that one individual can have multiple logins and so can make a huge impact on a company when it is only one person with a beef. This then can unnaturally amplify the size of the problem. I feel that this forum is great with general experences of Italy and how to deal with issues such as registering a car!!!! ( have you ever tried to do that?) but I feel that it should not get to the personal or specifics of naming and shaming as it is impossible to verify the facts.[/QUOTE]

so personal experiences count for nothing? i don't know which thread you
are talking about, but you are now also making the assumption that someone
elses experience has no validity!
i am sure the company mentioned has a good record, but that doesn't mean
that there are not customers out there with bad experiences.they maywell
not even use this site.
how would you or i know for sure.
i am not that computer minded, so if you know that someone is login in
using multiple names? then why not shame them?
it would then atleast add some validity to YOUR claims.
now thats the good think about forums... and if you then try to start limiting
what you can and cannot say, then even your favourable report on the agents, could be deemed advertising or showing favour. isn't that what its
all about. opinions....

Of course, there could also be a case whereby an unscrupulous agent could also freely log onto this site, possibly using multiple identities and attempt to discredit genuine complainants, it would then lead to a nightmare for the site administrators... ;) :p ;)

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]Of course, there could also be a case whereby an unscrupulous agent could also freely log onto this site, possibly using multiple identities and attempt to discredit genuine complainants, it would then lead to a nightmare for the site administrators... ;) :p ;)[/QUOTE]

One log in per ISP would reduce the potential for trouble somewhat.

[QUOTE=Sano]One log in per ISP would reduce the potential for trouble somewhat.[/QUOTE]

I wish we'd had computers when I was at school, then I could probably answer Yeahhh, right on Sano, hadn't thought of that instead of wondering, then remembering I have wood to chop... :)

Interestingly - no smoke without fire - why has this agent's website been suspended by the host? Maybe a bill has not been paid or perhaps there's something more!

[QUOTE=Sano]One log in per ISP would reduce the potential for trouble somewhat.[/QUOTE]

How would you enforce this? Most don't have fixed IP addresses and can set up / use multiple different email addresses.

Hi

I've posted before on this subject and suggested that the forum instigates a rating system like the feedback used on ebay.

In all fairness there is a strong likelyhood that a competitor could use a forum like this to rubbish another agent and it would be extremly niave to think this hasn't already happened.

Either ban all naming of agents ( and dont let people get around it by saying the agents in ** airport) or invent a fair rating system that agents are aware of.

Becky

[QUOTE=Technically Blonde]How would you enforce this? Most don't have fixed IP addresses and can set up / use multiple different email addresses.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure of the technical details, but it can be done as one of the other forums I frequent has implemented this, and also blocked registration using web based email addresses. It was necessary there because of a sharp increase in trolling and flaming on the forums - always the same parties.

It is not a 100% secure way to stop bad posters, but does reduce the ease with which they can log on.

I agree with Becky. As a relative new comer to the forum I have found the information posted to be invaluable, but we have dealt with many of the agentstalkied about and my personal experiences have differed, in some instances, greatly from those of forum members.

There are good and bad in all areas, and as someone who works in the property industry in the UK I am only too aware of the bad press estate agents over here have had in the past which isn't helped by those awful programmes which set out to terrify everyone a la "Estate agents from hell"

The property industry in Italy is set to boom fuelled by people taking advantage of cheaper property prices. There will always be unscrupulous people ready to cash in and by the same token there will be some very good agents who just "get it wrong" for a particular client who then feels very disgrubtled.

The feed back system on e bay works very well and unless people are very determined and have heaps of time on their hands to post bogus views, in the main the comments are from genuine customers and information is useful rather than malicious.

We are all buying property in Italy because we love the �������� way of life and perhaps we should be embracing that, warts and all, rather than creating a Litttle Britain over the internet!!

[QUOTE=yorkshirelass]Interestingly - no smoke without fire - why has this agent's website been suspended by the host? Maybe a bill has not been paid or perhaps there's something more![/QUOTE]
With regards the website of this company I think that if you look there is no problem. Try again it could have been a misdirection on your computer. Why are you trying to rubbish this company???

[QUOTE=jackie C]I agree with Becky. As a relative new comer to the forum I have found the information posted to be invaluable, but we have dealt with many of the agentstalkied about and my personal experiences have differed, in some instances, greatly from those of forum members.

There are good and bad in all areas, and as someone who works in the property industry in the UK I am only too aware of the bad press estate agents over here have had in the past which isn't helped by those awful programmes which set out to terrify everyone a la "Estate agents from hell"

The property industry in Italy is set to boom fuelled by people taking advantage of cheaper property prices. There will always be unscrupulous people ready to cash in and by the same token there will be some very good agents who just "get it wrong" for a particular client who then feels very disgrubtled.

The feed back system on e bay works very well and unless people are very determined and have heaps of time on their hands to post bogus views, in the main the comments are from genuine customers and information is useful rather than malicious.

We are all buying property in Italy because we love the �������� way of life and perhaps we should be embracing that, warts and all, rather than creating a Litttle Britain over the internet!![/QUOTE]
I agree totally with you on this subject and this forum should be about sharing the love of Italy and not putting 'Little England' views about how things should operate. Unfortunately it seemd that there are 'Clients from Hell' too and this should not be forgotten.

[QUOTE=Peter England]I agree totally with you on this subject and this forum should be about sharing the love of Italy and not putting 'Little England' views about how things should operate. Unfortunately it seemd that there are 'Clients from Hell' too and this should not be forgotten.[/QUOTE]

now that, is something i can agree with...

[QUOTE=giovanni]now that, is something i can agree with...[/QUOTE]
Thank-you for that Giovanni and I only ment on my comments yesterday that I was concerned that there are possible comments on the forum that are for dubious reasons and not in the spirit that this forum was set up for.

J.....sorry Peter,
I don't like being approached by third parties - via a PM - to do other people's work. Strange that in your own thread you talk of multiple identities - are you who you say you are?

I think the whole idea of this forum is to share experiences (both good and bad) and subsequently learn the lessons. Perhaps a sort of "cookbook" or guideline of common practices when purchasing wouldn't be a bad idea for members to gauge themselves against. There are always going to be bad apples out there and Italy is really no exception.... and remember bad news travels fast!!
Perhaps it's good to know about dubious agents but if this means the risk of misinformation or delinquent use of this forum, then I think it's better to simply stay generic.

David
[url]www.ourtoscana.com[/url]

[QUOTE=yorkshirelass]J.....sorry Peter,
I don't like being approached by third parties - via a PM - to do other people's work. Strange that in your own thread you talk of multiple identities - are you who you say you are?[/QUOTE]
Dear W... or is it Yorkshire lass

This is not a multiple identity but just a friend of the agency that you have spoken so badly of. It is interesting that you have spent so much effort to rubbish a company but have failed to inform the agency of the problems of a legal document that you say is false. I would have thought that the Notaio or the vendors were responsible for the legality of the documents and not the agency! I don't believe that you would hold a British Estate agency to be at faullt if there was a problem with the documetation so why do you hold an �������� agency to be responsible? Why don't give let the agency try and sort it out or at least let them know about the problem before shouting about it in this forum?

[font=Arial][size=3]I believe that everyone has a right to express his or her views and experiences, irrespective of whether they are positive or negative. But, if someone has a genuine problem, and would like to discuss it further on forum, then I prefer to see the argument supported with unequivocal evidence and not just a statement along the lines of:[/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3][b]“I was ripped off by XYZ”[/b] for example... [/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3]Moreover, although Forum is important for sharing and learning as David points out, and for imparting information a [i]viva voce[/i] on the basis of fair comment, privilege and justification, I don’t think we should really get involved in the naming and shaming of any alleged offending party. We should also avoid areas concerning potential libel, defamation and innuendo. After all, what constitutes a matter of public interest is really for a court to decide; which has to be based on the merits of the individual case and not hearsay. [/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3]Perhaps it would be more appropriate for all those concerned that whoever wishes to alert us to a particular situation, they should do so only by spelling out the general particulars on this board and leaving us to make contact privately if we think we could benefit from any additional information.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3]For all [b]potential buyers out there[/b]…you should bear in mind that due to the growing appetite for properties in Italy, the [b][u]number of unscrupulous operators is inevitably on the rise. [/u][/b]This can only be stopped if a proper and effective system of governance is put in place. [/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3]Until that happens….you should avoid dealing with the following: [/size][/font]

[list]
[*][font=Arial][size=3]Unlicensed procacciatori, brokers or agents[/size][/font]
[*][font=Arial][size=3]Consulenti immobiliari (property consultants) who are not iscritto nel ruolo[/size][/font]
[*][font=Arial][size=3]Ex-pat and other non-�������� operators who, masquerading as agents or project managers, dabble in real estate without the proper qualifications and who only want to be paid in nero[/size][/font]
[*][font=Arial][size=3]Any other individuals operating abusivamente (illegally) [/size][/font]
[*][font=Arial][size=3]Where a conflict of interest may arise. For example, someone working full time in the public sector such a Geometra working full time for the local council [/size][/font]
[*][font=Arial][size=3]Non-registered builders or immigrant “construction” workers[/size][/font]
[/list]

[QUOTE=Peter England]Having lived in Bagni di Lucca for many years and know the agents that have been discussed openly in this forum, it seems that there has been a concerted effort to damage their business by individuals with their own agenda. I have spoken with the agents concerned and they are unaware of this forum and the acuusations that have been logged against them. They did say that there had been a court case by a client but that was thrown out of court by the judge who told the individuals that they were wasting the courts time. If this is the case should not this forum ban open discussions of this type as it can appear that one disgruntled individual can have a terrible effect on a small business in a small town in northern Tuscany.[/QUOTE]
Peter,
I ask, as i do anyone, who is defending/prosecuting an agent; What evidence do you have to support your position?

Peter,
Where are you?, or are you, like most who post on here, WHINGING. Where's your evidence?
Rob

Rob, you may want to try writing direct to the website of the agent concerned. If Peter is such a good friend of theirs they should be able to put you in touch with him. However, it may be that Peter is not who he says he is and in writing to the agent you will be addressing him direct! If you're not sure from my original posting (Dubious Agent) who the agent is PM me.

Call me pedantic, but shouldn't the title of this thread be [b]'Lies about [i]honest[/i] agent?'[/b]?!

Marc

You mean [B]Honset[/B] don't you:D

Dave