½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

You could probably get slightly more for your money if you looked at the lunigiana area of tuscany. Is very similar in many ways to Emiglia and Marche, but relatively undiscoverd.

Thanks Will - not an area that we've considered. I'll take a look.

Lunigiana and Garfagnana offer good value for money, prices have not increased as much as in other areas of Italy and places near larger cities which are densely populated and definitely not the perfect spot where to have a holiday home.

With regards to costs of purchase, a part from 10% tax on the declared value, the notary's fees which are between 1 to 2% with a minimum fee of approximately 1500 euros, and agency fees which may vary from 3 to 4% applied on the price of the property, setting up of utility bills approx 90 euros for electricity whilst water and gas may vary from 50 to 100 euros.

Also please do not forget to budget for furniture, the good news is that we have IKEA in Italy, in Florence, Bologna, Genova, Rome etc. you'll find that the kitchen furniture is almost never included in the sale of a property, also on new build this is quoted separately.

If you buy a building in derelict condition, you have to budget for the costs of repair, the costs may vary from 600 to 1000 euros per square meter if it comes to dismantling ceilings and roof and you may need to pay somebody who can project manage the renovation for you.

I hope this helps.

Kind Regards

Based on our experience, I'd offer several comments:
- there are loads of houses out there; don't rush!
- get the money sorted; you'll NEVER have enough(!)
- work out how long you want to take 'doing up'..... do you need it ready ASAP or will it be a more leisurely affair (this will impact on costs too!)
- visit areas and when you find the one that's for you, got out there on several occasions & get to know the locals, towns etc..... you may find you come in contact with others looking to sell
- talk to others in the area who have bought........ there's always a stack of useful information that you can pick up that way; some tips on what to do & who to avoid!

Read Tuscan hills's post before and after every house you view... adding, NEVER assume you, or your agent will know the cost of ANY renovations needed...
Good Luck

Thanks George....... those lessons were hard learned ;)

[QUOTE=eliana]Lunigiana and Garfagnana offer good value for money, prices have not increased as much as in other areas of Italy and places near larger cities which are densely populated and definitely not the perfect spot where to have a holiday home.
[/QUOTE]

I am just in the process of buying a house in Garfagnana and am hoping to complete within a month. This is an Amazing area, and is unspolit by the infux of tourists and associated cheap and nasty places that spring up from nowhere.

Feel free to send me a PM with your mail address and I can forward you some photos of the region, contact agents, B&B etc... I promise you will fall in love with the place!!

Regards
:)

Consider Northern Lazio, good value for money as still relatively undiscovered although convenient for Roma. PM us if you want more info!

There's a guide to the costs of buying a house (taxes, fees etc), with a handy calculator, at the following address:
[url]http://www.itili.com/guide.htm[/url]

³Ò³Ü²â…

Make sure you don’t underestimate renovation costs, as these can be quite hefty.

In many cases, buyers’ original budgets for the whole project prove insufficient because of unforeseen work and unexpected surprises. It really depends on a number of variables and you will only discover these as you go along. As a guideline, the cost of renovating a rural property in a poor state of conservation will most likely equal the purchase price (depending upon the condition of the property), although it is not unlikely that the ratio of building costs to purchase price will be far higher.

Good luck with your search. If you need more accurate and realistic information about the process of conveyancing and renovation in Italy, with an idea of associated costs then do drop me a line.

[QUOTE=Charles Joseph]Make sure you don’t underestimate renovation costs, as these can be quite hefty......[/QUOTE]

We 'slightly' overlooked the cost of furnishing etc..... OK, it's been an ongoing process of 'fitting out' but it was all completed thanks to Mr Visa :(

Guy,

I deal with properties in Piemonte that would be very much in your price range... I am thinking expecially of one in Fubine.
Have a look. If you are not interested in Piemonte we have a page on our web page that will tae you through the purchase process in Italy, so that could be of help anyway!

Best of luck

Paola

Hope you dont mind me being cheeky, I am in the process of looking for a property in Italy. Could you send me some photo's and let me know about the area.
Steve. [email]stevedawson9@hotmail.com[/email]

for your budget i would recomend Abruzzo region you will get a nice property for that price and for investment it is the next up and coming region if you would like more info then pm me

[QUOTE=factorette;69534]Hope you dont mind me being cheeky, I am in the process of looking for a property in Italy. Could you send me some photo's and let me know about the area.
Steve. [email]stevedawson9@hotmail.com[/email][/QUOTE]

Have a look at Puglia - there are still some great properties at good prices, and the area is fantastic. I admit to being prejudiced as we live in Puglia! But definitely worth a look see - make sure you check everything you are told and whereever possible get independent verification. After all you wouldn't buy a house in the UK without an indpendent survey, local searches etc would you!

[QUOTE=Dustybin;10374]After much deliberation, my new wife and I have decided to start looking for a property in Italy.. probably somewhere in Marche or Emilia Romagna.

We are just starting our search and are picking up some really good tips from this message board ... thank you.

[/QUOTE]

Can thoroughly recommend Emilia Romagna. We bought our house three year ago, it is in the Parco del Gigante and the area is beautiful. Fortunately, it isn't one of the better known areas so not many English - yet! Hopefully it will stay that way. :rofl:

Lorraine

I have lived in of Emilia Romagna for 3 years, we looked at tuscany and le Marche ( both lovely) but where is'nt in Italy?
This place did it for me and when you find whats right you will stop looking.
Property very good value, a lot of renovation projects on offer and building land available as well.
And you dont need an estate agent as everybody has something to sell!
And if you need somewhere to stay while you are looking I can recommend Lorraines Place!!

[QUOTE=herealready;69674]I have lived in of Emilia Romagna for 3 years, we looked at tuscany and le Marche ( both lovely) but where is'nt in Italy?
This place did it for me and when you find whats right you will stop looking.
Property very good value, a lot of renovation projects on offer and building land available as well.
[B]And you dont need an estate agent as everybody has something to sell![/B]
And if you need somewhere to stay while you are looking I can recommend Lorraines Place!![/QUOTE]

[B]Very debatable advice there![/B]

Buying directly from property owners [I]simply because everybody has something to sell,[/I] is the most risky way to purchase property for foreign buyers.
Exposure to all kinds of troubles in the purchase process is not what a foreign buyer wants.

I admire the naive courage of [I]herealready[/I], but I do not think that just because he has been lucky in crossing a river jumping on crocodiles heads in the water, others should do the same trusting in the same kind of luck.

[IMG]http://www.indignato.it/archive/Coccodrillo.GIF[/IMG]

Buying abroad without an agent is a serious business.

I chose to dedicate my work as an agent to english speaking buyers from abroad because I have lived abroad for long and I do know the difficulties someone might experience. I took this decision out of a personal choice, not because I will make more money out of it (actually I am aware I will make 15% of what my italian colleagues selling to italian buyers make in one year)!

So, reading an advice like that makes me

[IMG]http://edatpr.homestead.com/files/shiver.jpg[/IMG]

An agent is a professional figure like many others, I think. There is a lot of prejudice around and I even approve some of it, since there are a lot of bad guys out there.

[IMG]http://www.bbc.co.uk/portuguese/images/020503_afeganistao300.jpg[/IMG]
[COLOR="Red"]ITALebANS[/COLOR]

From my professional point of view, I have a lot of things to check before I can even think to consider acting on behalf of a house seller: only after I am satisfied with what I saw, heard and touched I carry on with the sale, the advertising and all the related stuff. Can a foreign buyer see, hear and touch with the same results, before buying? We all know the answer: NO.

I can start a thread with a long list of what could go wrong.

Remember: one thing is to know your enemy, another thing is to defend yourself from your enemy. If only Troy had more estate agents...

[IMG]http://www.rayalma.com/Mad_magazine/Troy.jpg[/IMG]

I did in fact use an agent when I bought here, and thats why I would advise against it.
you would nt trust one in uk so why trust one over here?they are in the business to make money not friends.
There are a lot of ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs in rural areas who have no idea of the potential value of their property/land, and can be preyed on by greedy estate agents.A good geometre can and will help with the buying process and you will know in advance what it will cost.

[quote=herealready;69711]I did in fact use an agent when I bought here, and thats why I would advise against it.
you would nt trust one in uk so why trust one over here?[/quote]

I think thats unneccessarily harsh: I [B][I]would[/I][/B] trust an agent ... if I believed them to be trustworthy. Granted, how you establish that (in UK or anywhere else) is the $64K question, and the onus is on the customer there. Where there was any doubt (i.e. as to whether they are inflating prices etc.) you, the customer, need to do some independant research (for me that would be part of the initial establishment of trust phase anyway).

[quote=herealready;69711]
they are in the business to make money not friends.[/quote]
well so are all professional people (though it IS possible to do both ...). I'm not friends with my accountant and he charges me a lot, but I trust his advice nonetheless

[quote=herealready;69711]
A good geometre can and will help with the buying process and you will know in advance what it will cost[/quote]
Bear in mind that your advice on this thread is aimed squarely at "property virgins". Not only is the idea of a geometra acting in place of the agent wrong in principle & practice, all you are really doing is shifting the burden of trust from one professional (who's qualified as an agent) to another (who isn't). Finding a good, trustworthy geometra is just as much of a minefield ... how do you know he hasn't got an undeclared interest in the property? How do you know he isn't convincing you to buy something because he knows you'll need to give hem oodles of expensive work on it post-purchase?

IMO, people need to find an agent they trust, but keep their wits about them and double check every thing they are told until that trust proves merited. This forum is an almost ideal vehicle for that - if you get told something suspicious by a potential agent/geometra, you can cross check here and have a pretty decent answer (or at least some pretty decent follow up questions) PDQ. Do that BEFORE commiting to an agent/property and you should be OK.

[QUOTE=herealready;69711]I did in fact use an agent when I bought here, and thats why I would advise against it.
you would nt trust one in uk so why trust one over here?they are in the business to make money not friends.
There are a lot of ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs in rural areas who have no idea of the potential value of their property/land, and can be preyed on by greedy estate agents.A good geometre can and will help with the buying process and you will know in advance what it will cost.[/QUOTE]

[B]I think that nobody can speak for a whole nation[/B], so I do not think that nobody in UK trusts an agent, otherwise there would be no agents in UK, it's a very easy equation.

Reducing the category of agents to ruthless money-making bandits is such an [B]ignorant statement [/B]that I even refuse to comment on it.

Agents do not prey anybody and all house owners in Italy know the value of what they own. The only difficulty those owners have is: [B]how to sell [/B](not how much to sell for). [B]Agents are there to help, not to exploit[/B].

[B]A geometra cannot act as an agent[/B]: the Chamber of Commerce can and will act against any individuals working as agents or pretending to be agents. The [B]article 348 of the Codice Penale [/B]applies a 500 euros fine and 6 months in [B]jail[/B] for these bandits.

[B]An agent, by law, cannot do any other kind of job in another professional category[/B]. Why should anybody else (a geometra, an engineer, an architect) do the agent's job?

I understand that a bad experience with an agent might easily cause a long term discrimination attitude, yet [B]not all agents are bad and not everybody has bad experiences with agents[/B].

The property market has its own rules: if a greedy agent expects to make a fortune out of a property with limited value, he is in for a long wait.

[QUOTE=herealready;69711]I did in fact use an agent when I bought here, and thats why I would advise against it.
you would nt trust one in uk so why trust one over here?they are in the business to make money not friends.
There are a lot of ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs in rural areas who have no idea of the potential value of their property/land, and can be preyed on by greedy estate agents.A good geometre can and will help with the buying process and you will know in advance what it will cost.[/QUOTE]

We too had very bad experience with agents here, as did friends of ours with the same agent. Our friends have gone on to buy more property with the help of locals and a very good geometra - paid local prices and everything checked out before the offers were even put in.

All agents are not the same, but you should certainly check everything out and get independent advice from a geometra / lawyer. After all you wouldn't buy a property in the UK without and indpendent survery, local searches and your own solicitor handling the contracts would you?

house abruzzo you obviously make good points but herealready has history...sometimes its useful to go back and see some of the starting points that she made and you might understand where she comes from

however you also know that there are a lot of strange applications of house selling methods in abruzzo, you have made slight insinuations but have not really comitted yourself in that respect... and indeed aprt from the non registered element that seems to be opening at a rate of a new one a week here there is the sordid element of the registered agencies that have some very sharp practices even and up to invcluding the involvement of comune officials and notaries...

as someone who has worked in this field here within the thick of things i think your statement is almost nieve and am sure you realise that the practice is not true... despite all the laws and regs that agents are supposed to follow...

all it takes is one bad agent to ruin things for all of us... and thats the main problem here ...in abruzzo they seem to be crawling out of the woodwork

by the way... i missed the picture... although maybe you might have sympathy for those trying to read your posts on a dial up line...

I realized that what may cause bad judgements towards agents is that people just do not know what agents are supposed or not supposed to do.

In my experience, when I have a buyer, from Britain or USA or elsewhere, enquiring about a property, I follow this schedule:

1) I reply with general details about the property giving all information requested.

2) I make sure that there is a possibility of a house deal beneficial to both the seller and the buyer (by law an agent must be impartial between the parties involved).

3) I assist the client with solving any doubts about his choice on where and what to buy.

4) I do always mention both the PROS AND CONS of the property.

5) I examine the long term requirements of the potential buyer: if he has kids, for instance, I would never dream to push a remote property instead of a house near public services.

6) I help organizing the visit on site.

7) I do the viewing with the buyer and I provide all the information that by law I am supposed to give.

8) On request, I arrange for a survey with an architect and a geometra, I provide estimates of costs of renovation, based on official tariffs locally used.

9) I consult a notary to make sure that the property is commercially sellable, i.e. that there are no vices, impediments, hidden obstacles, etc.

10) I discuss all of the above again with the buyer to make sure that everything is well understood.

11) I make sure that the buyer knows what are his rights and obligations by law.

12) I proceed to assisting the buyer towards the Compromesso or Rogito.

There are things that an agent cannot do, is not supposed to do and does not know how to do. Calling in professionals like a geometra, architect, notary, engineer, interior designer are obligatory steps to take in order to ensure a professional service.

Also an agent must give all of the above attention to the seller too, since many people with property on sale have no clue of what are the right steps to take for obtaining a risk-free sale process.

[QUOTE=adriatica;69737]by the way... i missed the picture... although maybe you might have sympathy for those trying to read your posts on a dial up line...[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mba/lowres/mban375l.jpg[/IMG]

to [B][COLOR="SeaGreen"]adriatica[/COLOR][/B] :

I can only speak for myself and the way I work, that is the only commitment I owe to people who put their trust in me.

I do know the situation in Abruzzo very well and I do not throw smoke on it, I'm the first one in line to open people's eyes about it.

I love my job, I love Britain, I love Italy: that makes me look naive, I know, but I know what is right and what is wrong and that is enough for me.

[IMG]http://users.nitro7.com/angelslayer/funny/sign_right-wrong.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=herealready;69711]They are in the business to make money not friends.
.[/QUOTE]

I'd actually say good long term agents are out to make friends. It's different if you are dealing with somebody that is just looking to pickup a little extra spending money but the types that are looking for years/decades of work don't want a bad rep.

One upset person tends to tell many more people. OTOH very few happy people go around shouting the name of the person that did the good job. So you end up needing a spotless record to stick around.

Just to add my 2ps worth I would say that the situation in Abruzzo is quite complicated.

It would be well for anyone buying or considering buying to read through as many threads on Estate Agents in the region as they can find and then perhaps the picture may become a little clearer.

This thread was actually started by someone wanting to buy in Emilia Romagna or Marche, Abruzzo had nothing to do with it until the estate agent hijacked it to sell himself!

[QUOTE=herealready;69892]This thread was actually started by someone wanting to buy in Emilia Romagna or Marche, Abruzzo had nothing to do with it until the estate agent hijacked it to sell himself![/QUOTE]

The original part of the thread is nearly two years old Herealready and the originator has probably found what they where looking for by now, so the rest is irrelevant. Don't fret too much - people can see what's happened.

[QUOTE=herealready;69892]This thread was actually started by someone wanting to buy in Emilia Romagna or Marche, Abruzzo had nothing to do with it until the estate agent hijacked it to sell himself![/QUOTE]

Very untrue!

In fact this thread has been re-started by someone who contacted me directly a few days before he began writing on this forum. I recognized him, but discretely avoided to make that clear in this forum. His interest in my services were defined already, so... if I wanted to sell myself, do you think I would do that with someone I know already, wasting my professional time?

If in this forum there were only people from one category (buyers, sellers, agents) the discussion would not be as good as it is at the moment.

I show my full name and company name on this forum since I have nothing to hide and I like to help people with doubts and worries. I do not need this forum to sell my business (which is against the rules anyway), I just like to hang around here because I believe in exchanging opinions and experiences.

My contribution so far has been to provide information on property purchases procedures, to give advice based on statistics and the law, to explain why it is better to do things by the book: in short, I like to help.

Herealready should use more wits and less presumption and avoid accusing anyone of anything without proofs, hiding behind anonymity.

[IMG]http://www.foodsafeschools.org/FSAG_CD/Resources/FNS/Photo_Artwork/Artwork/Black-White/BAC_Characters/BAC_hiding1_bw.jpg[/IMG]

Aside from other issues HA, I have really enjoyed the graphics they have made me laugh, and brightened up my day, keep them coming!
A

[IMG]http://www.ideaphotos.com/Video-Clips-Slide-Shows/Funny-White-Gorrila-Smiling.jpg[/IMG]

...a rare photo of a go[B]real[/B]la [B]estate agent [/B]with no licence, minutes before he was captured...ehm.... arrested by the police...

...his lawyer could do nothing to get him out of jail...this monkey business was too hot for him to handle...

[IMG]http://ttpb.co.uk/Image/FunnyMonkey.jpg[/IMG]

...the buyers were left homeless...abandoned to their grief and desperation...remembering the ruthless agent words: The Price? Just Peanuts!

[IMG]http://www.funnypictures.net.au/userimages/user1680_1178903660a.jpg[/IMG]

...Sir[B]Lock[/B] [B]Homes[/B], the best security advisor around town was called in to help...

[IMG]http://www.thefunnypets.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/monkey-hugging-dog.jpg[/IMG]

...and just to make sure the case would be closed fast, Inspector [B]CallAGun[/B] also joined in...

[IMG]http://www.mattcioffi.com/samples/gangstaChimp23.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Torchiarolan;70289]
I am not for a moment suggesting that you are less than you say you are, because I have never dealt with you, but in my opinion you tend to generalise too much, not "all" italians know the value of what they are selling or how much agents sell them for some are actually shocked to discover what their house really sold for, and not "ALL" agents are as trustworthy as you appear to suggest. [/QUOTE]

This forum is obviously a place where opinions and experiences are exchanged, neither you nor I have the absolute truth to offer to readers.

It is good though that forum readers see different versions of analysis of the same problem.

Your version is biased by the fact that you had a bad experience with an agent and that makes your version subjective.

My version, instead, comes directly from my work experience and good willing committment in this field: I see every week many different situations, scenarios, I deal with different kinds of people, I cope with all kinds of requests, from buyers and sellers...I have a lot more to say than you simply because I see more.

If in a couple of posts I have not hidden the fact that I am an agent, I think that it was fair to do that in exchange for some unknown and useful information I have published on the forum (see all my posts, not just those on this thread). Also ronald was very clear on this: [I]Essentially, we are not against people letting other people know about their business. But this is a forum to discuss about Italy. If you are an active member that contributes to all forms of discussion then the occasional plug (if and only if in context) is fine – alternatively its not and will be removed.[/I]

Since he has not removed or censored my posts, why are you indirectly criticizing ronald's work here as a moderator?

As a result of this, what I say is not certainly the absolute truth, but it is true for me and for what I see in my work.

I have written about the good and the bad things, then it is up to readers of the forum to choose whether to look for a good agent or to seek property without one.

Generalising is the only honest way to handle a topic like this: I do not work for ISTAT nor I am a judge or a police inspector with access to national archives, nor your experience applies for every future property buyer in Abruzzo or Italy.

I can only speak for myself and for fellow agents which I know do work without ripping off anybody.

Finally, I insist on the fact that someone reading your post has no idea of who you are, where instead someone reading my post knows exactly who I am: I believe that it should be a rule to make a forum either totally anonymous or entirely explicit, as far as identities are concerned. Meanwhile, I accept any feedback to my posts, including posts like yours which describe a painful personal experience with agents and from there starts inoculating bad mood in the forum.

So, tell me objectively, my anonymous friend, who is contributing with a better heart to this forum, as far as ethics are concerned?

For justice sake, let me say that when buyers give priority to saving money rather than to safe buying and investing, "sheep" happens with twice as much cruelty.

Those instead who do not mind paying an agent fee, who refer to their lawyer, who seek independent geometra or architect advice and who do a little homework before adventuring in buying abroad, have less chances to experience the umpleasant in the buying process. In other words, the more you want to save, the more you are exposed to the vultures circling above. If you, Torchiarolan, had taken enough precautions, the same ones you wisely advised readers to take in the other thread of the forum (...make sure the agent is registered...make sure he has an office to call in to....), probaly you would have not shared in the forum a bad experience, but a happy one!

If you drive blindfolded, can you really blame the car in front for the accident?

:biggrin:

[IMG]http://www.chillisauce.co.uk/images/1001-1100/1014.jpg[/IMG]

I would of though Torchiarolan has as much right as the next person / agent to speak of his experiences. Nobody is saying all agents are bad - in any country anywhere in the world there are good and bad agents / lawyers / dentists / doctors - whatever.

People planning on buying abroad (anywhere) need to stop and think and be cautious. After all you wouldn't buy a house in the UK without your own lawyer checking the contract, title deeds, planning etc and having your own survey carried out would you.

Unfortunately many foreign property buyer gets carried away by the dream and good sense and caution goes out of the window. And I speak from experience ........ I quote from an email received from the agent before buying

"Villa ..... is completely legal as far as the building goes",

this was in connection with a problem with land which they were honest about. Comforted by the honesty about the land problem we believed the statement about the building being legal. So how come almost 2 years later and almost 10000 euros lighter we are still waiting for the final documents legalising the house.

Yes fingers burnt, so it makes me subjective, however I'm not the only person who has bought abroad and subsequently found problems. Prospective buyers need to be aware that these things happen and take care when buying abroad.

Now because I haven't provided my name and address House Abruzzo will undoubtedly attack my post, but look - I didn't buy in Abruzzo, know nothing about how House Abruzzo conducts himself, my comments are not aimed specifically at him and I am not claiming all agents are bad. But some are - so let the buyer beware (and be aware)!

My dear Torchia, I never said all agents are good.
If you read all my posts in the forum, you will see that I am the first in line to denounce a situation of illegality in this field. I even state that on the preface of my website.
Some of the concepts I tried to communicate in my poor english have been misinterpreted and misquoted by you in a way that I did not think it was possible. I start believing you are an agent too (just kidding), who jumped in this particular thread to attack all I wrote.

I will repeat myself in the shortest way possible, with my apologies to the forum readers who have instead read all my other posts and know already what I think:

1) You had one bad experience in buying property, I see many different scenarios, so the statistics I can quote are superior in quantity not in quality.

2) I never stated that all agents are honest, this is something you think I said, don't know why.

3) Saving money: if you think that buying without the professional assistance of legally authorized agents is a good thing to do, mostly because it saves you money, you are free to do so, in my opinion instead I say that is risky and can cause problems.

4) I thank you for the personal remarks addressed to me directly: again I accept all criticism, as I believe a forum should be a free space for everybody, but please note that I never offended you directly (as you did with me) and I never will, as it is not in my style.

5) The way you purchased your property, the good and the bad things happened to you are certainly best shared in a forum like this if you understood that one person's experience does not reflect reality. Statistics are the sum of more than one experience, in fact on this forum I have read positive and negative stories.

6) Tip: try not to get too personal in future; our forum readers are not interested in duels, but in as many different stories as possible, which will give them a rough idea of what is the situation over here.

7) Finally, I wish you all the best and hope that you will find more happiness in your italian home than on this forum's pages.

ciao :rolleyes:

Dear Technically blonde,
I have no reason to attack anybody's post.

My remark on the discrepancy between members with full credentials displayed and members with anonimity was a technically brunette remark!
:wink:

I hope that all members can lighten up a bit and refrain from personal attacks. I believe that most of us either have joined because we are seeking advice and/or feel that we have something to offer that could be beneficial to others. I personally have met several delightful couoples through this forum who have been very helpful and fun to get together with and would hate to see people being turned off by feuding members. Perhaps if you have a beef with someone on the forum it would be best to pm them privately.

Lisa

[QUOTE=HouseAbruzzo;70398]our forum readers are not interested in duels ...[/QUOTE]

well, almost certainly correct for the newbies/guests etc. but I'm not so sure when it comes to some of the regulars ... here's a snap of two veterans discussing the best way to drive around an alpine corner in a Right Hand Drive vehicle ...

Mega-LOL...pigro...hahahahaha :laugh:

Going back to the original purpose of the thread (advice for buying in Italy):

there are serious debates in Abruzzo at the moment, regarding the quality of water reaching homes around the region and the levels of pollution in it.

If you are going to be in Abruzzo while this serious issue is on, please take good care of your health and stay informed about the problem.

Speaking as one who has bought several times in England and only once in Italy, I would say that whereas in England the house buying process is virtually identical whether one is in Newcastle or Newquay, in Italy it varies from one deal to the next. So my experience will not be the same as yours because our situations are different. Remember 'Caveat emptor'; and whichever route you take, get an English speaking lawyer.
Annie.
PS And let's not have a repetition of the last bust-up which resulted in several people leaving this Forum altogether.

house abruzzo

regarding the water problem in the valley of pescara there is a whole thread dedicated to it in the abruzzo section of the forum ... and the areas of abruzzo affected by that problem... from Bussi down to the harbour at pescara and all people supplied by the wells used by the ACA water company in that area...

there is no general abruzzo water problem

however to talk about the water problem in that area provides a very good point when talking about estate agents... we all know there are laws to protect consumers and that ACA the water company has a legal duty of care to its customers ...we also know that the ARTA the ambiente checking association knew about ACA poisoning its customers a long time ago ...in fact years... and its been the collusion of comunes and provincial officials ... lawyers and magistrates, mayors and no doubt a few estate agents have kept quite about it... now if all these people will not worry about what they or their neighbours are drinking ...or even their children i dont think we can take it as written in blood that the estate agent will be anywhere above them in the cause of customer care ...and undoubtedley the laws protecting customers in the house buying process are less than the water laws...

personal examples of what happens to people ...especially when they do not name anyone...carry a good deal of wait in my opinion and do well to counter the pressure that people come under here in Italy to complete a purchase.. .. and show what people get up to either registered or not..... many years back i advocated the notary system here with its checks and legal duties as a consumer protection.. after many examples of colluding notaries in illegal property sales and discrepancies regarding what is seen and what is bought in a final act i realise that there are no checks and balances whereas in law there should be,

maybe what you should do first before getting so uptight abou individuals is to uncheck the button and the bottom of the page where it limits the posts you see to the last few months or so ... and go back over the hundreds ...actually most probabley thousands where this has been discussed and shown to be a very difficult country to buy in for very many foreign buyers ... with many different failings ... going through all that has been said there will maybe take you a fair time... but you will maybe at the end of some sad reading understand where many peoples opinions come from... but before even thinking of concluding the reading and research on here aand getting back to us all i that sense... i think it would be handy to check the puglia forum as well which has even more detailed stories ... governed by exactley the same national laws as anywhere in Italy... and after reading all that i reckon then you might see that despite all the rules and regs it doesnt work if someone wants to abuse the system... even worse when you get a whole team... and thats why lots of people get angry and sad or whatever... because unlike you or me ... their interest involves their own money so in a way much better equiped to answer things on here ... because they run the risk of loosing an awful lot of things from money to health....

Hi Barbara,

allow me to disagree: there is a water problem in Abruzzo and, general or not, I feel the moral duty to let that know to as many people as possible, unlike those agents who bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is allright. I also thought it was useful to post it here, as an Italy property virgin might also be an Italy Magazine Forum virgin and not see the other thread.

Tomorrow, 30th August, there will be an extraordinary session at Palazzo dell'Emiciclo in L'Aquila, guided by Paolo Tancredi, president of the Abruzzo regional council, to investigate on work carried out by ATO.
The subject of the session is: the water emergency in Abruzzo.

Now, I think that reflects well enough a (general or not) serious water problem in Abruzzo, together with issues brought to life from other political and public sources.

Thank you for your lead on the Puglia thread, I'll have a look.