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John,

I haven't the foggiest idea what your post is all about but anyway, have a look at my little picture on the right hand side of my profile, look at it for a few seconds, it might cheer you up. It makes me smile, I hope it will do the same for you.

Val

John,
a very good point and well made.
Doubt if I'll make 700 the way things are going on this "Italy Lovers" Forum.

Am more amused by the link at the bottom of the page advertising Jack Russels for sale.

John, there are always the exceptions to the rule and there will always be the odd individual who has nothing else better to do than to act in an obtuse and irritating manner.

[QUOTE=adriatica]yesterday i saw a blatant abuse of the forum in which one member obviously viwed the profile of another who seemed to have upset them and started posting willy nilly rubbish all over the place....

now i am not one to be able to openly criticise anyone for rubbish....i write enough myself... hopefully this sentence will suffice so that all of you dont have to be bored by someone chasing all my postings around the forum and getting at me...

... i have seen terriers with much the same mentality when rabitting in devon.... but they are dogs...bred to hang on

...i think arguement and debate is a good thing... i think opening someones profile and replying to all their latest postings in this way is an abuse of that persons privacy and rights....

...i could have pm to ronald.... but i think because this is a forum issue regarding all members why keep it private.... we all know there are tons of memebers on here that do not post...often you see first posters almost apologise for their question...is this to be a place of welcome or do we have to live in terror of someone getting upset enough to start an abusive campaign...

to all members that dont post because of worries about looking silly... from someone that has made a malpractice of it...go ahead.... if anyone gets to you .... just let them have a go...they are more stupid in their ignorance and abuse than anyone honest enough on here to post their views in an open and hopefully friendly forum

...personally i would like to see the member that did this banned or else made to chase georges postings around for the rest of his life...... is it 700 now....

sano ... please do not delete... and ronald you can reprimand me in public if you so wish

and my deepest apologies to all jack russels.....[/QUOTE]

i always look forward to reading your comments, well informed, honest and
readable.
i think i know what you are talking about,[nothing to do with me] but too
many or a few seem fit to use the R word without first checking their own
posts. i see nothing wrong with a few home truths.

yes you are right that there are some who would not post because of fears,
but as one 700 poster to be as driven 1 person away in my time on here,
i believe you are now trying to make someone else solely responsible for others actions, which yes does include myself as well.

i look forward to reading many more of your posts and others.

giovanni ... i like your posts... in truth in the regional post suggested by sano i found your reply in essence one of the more informative and interesting...so far... however .. and with me you will find youll always get an aguement.... your better to stick with what you love about th place...you always come across much better...

i dont know in fact what you are talking about in this post...but thanks for the compliment...if it was anyway....

to make it clear and to risk being ...god knows what...but hey ...do i care..

sdoj...i think thats his name...got cross with will... he then opened that users profile and posted silly and cretinous messages all over the board.... a simple pm to will could have surficed.... however he obviously wanted to publish his own method of punishment....i find this method of arguing by using the simple method of entering a members profile and replying to all their latest posts...good or bad as abusive and childish and i think that as we all accept our profiles ...limited or not are available to members of this forum we have a certain right that all members subscribing will respct our rights... hence my call for banning ... as i regard this use of accessability as priviliged....

i have noted your messages on the forum and the abuse they received...in a sense lightheartedly ... but also hurtful.... i have as little respect for those replies to you...but at least they did not chase all your postings around the board and try to ridicule you

that is my point... and now names are out and i am prepared to accept the consequences

[QUOTE=adriatica]giovanni ... i like your posts... in truth in the regional post suggested by sano i found your reply in essence one of the more informative and interesting...so far... however .. and with me you will find youll always get an aguement.... your better to stick with what you love about th place...you always come across much better...

i dont know in fact what you are talking about in this post...but thanks for the compliment...if it was anyway....

to make it clear and to risk being ...god knows what...but hey ...do i care..

sdoj...i think thats his name...got cross with will... he then opened that users profile and posted silly and cretinous messages all over the board.... a simple pm to will could have surficed.... however he obviously wanted to publish his own method of punishment....i find this method of arguing by using the simple method of entering a members profile and replying to all their latest posts...good or bad as abusive and childish and i think that as we all accept our profiles ...limited or not are available to members of this forum we have a certain right that all members subscribing will respct our rights... hence my call for banning ... as i regard this use of accessability as priviliged....

i have noted your messages on the forum and the abuse they received...in a sense lightheartedly ... but also hurtful.... i have as little respect for those replies to you...but at least they did not chase all your postings around the board and try to ridicule you

that is my point... and now names are out and i am prepared to accept the consequences[/QUOTE]

i know i have a wicked tonque and i am trying to curb it, also when i am aware that i have gone way too far, i will try to opologise.
but some can never be wrong.
yes i am talking about the racist remarks, and how a certain person reacted
to being called it.
i too was on another thread called the same, [the whole thread was removed] and i too was incensed by how someone can use such slanderus and libel words on a public forum. [maybe the fact that not only the cost and
even founding out who is responsible makes it a none starter] and i was glad
it was removed by the mods,by the time i returned from work 3 days later.
the people who used these words, in my opinion do not have any right what
so ever to do so, and the person you are talking about, looks like he decided
to check the person who made the remark for any double standards.
which he found.
now i didn't know it was wrong to check one persons post history or that
this type of action would have you believe it was a banable offence, i would
think that leaving a forum site in a situation where it could be closed down
for provable libel and slander would be worse!

i also noticed you mention pm the person in question.maybe this is not possible. i myself honour another persons request not to do so, maybe the
same situation arised here.

name calling is not pleasent, i agree, but what i do find strange is that in true
italian tradition i and others can blow our tops one day and move on.is this
an italian thing? is this racist? some on the otherhand carry the resentment
with them forever.
i for one will be interested to see if any of the 4 or 5 i have crossed words
with will ever post a reply on a subject involving agreement with me, time
will tell. but would be pleasantly surprised.
hope you do not take offence, well in all honestly would hope that some that
could, realise that we all have something to offer and a yes world would be
boring for all..

[QUOTE=Charles Joseph]Am more amused by the link at the bottom of the page advertising Jack Russels for sale.[/QUOTE]

It's an advert for eBay, too!

.............do you think they'll post the russell?!?!?

I noted the postings too and was going to write a stinging repost, but the words just didn't come and would have failed to hit the mark; so I held my peace.

Well posted adriatica.

Dear John,

Mea culpa massima mea culpa... yes it was me. I like a lot of your posts John and am disappointed that you have taken against me. It was done when I was furious with Will and at the time I saw no other option. A private message to Will or a complaint to Ronald wuld not have undone the damge already done by Will. I had been accused of being a racist on an open forum when there was no evidence of racism. It made me feel like the person at the end of that famous question: "when did you stop beating your wife".
This is what happened:
I posted a remark agreeing with something that Sano had written in "Unconditional Love for Italy";
Will fired a broadside accusing me of attacking Sano and of being a racist he supported his accusation by plucking a few of my words out of context;
I replied to him that my intention had been exactly the opposite on both counts;
I also asked Sano to excuse me if he understood my remarks in the same negative way;
Sano and a couple of others confirmed that they had no problems with what I had written but Will came back again accusing me of being a racist;
After my third attempt to explain myself to Will the penny dropped but instead of apologising or keeping quiet he accused me of being patronising about the very same people I was once supposed to have been racist about.
I decided I wanted to know more about this Will and trawled through his most recent postings to see what he had written and found fault with every single one and for the first dozen or so I let him know it but the worst I ever called him was a dunce.
Recently, somebody else in this forum was quite unfairly accused of being racist and for me that is the true abuse of the forum ... whereas I feel I should be allowed to disagree with as many posts as I want (boring as it may well be) - I don't think I should be allowed to call anyone a liar, a thief, a pervert or a racist in an open forum? Does anybody agree to a poll on this point?

I have just been over the posts that started all this and I would like to say that many a time I have noticed how touchy people are over certain remarks, its one of the reasons I very rarely post. I didn't find anything whatsoever racist in the original post that started everything. I would hate to find out what would happen if someone did say something really bad.

:eek: :)

Sdoj…for me, true abuse of Forum is:

A)When members resort to making attacks of a personal nature or posting childish remarks of a resentful nature.

B)When members continue to ignore Forum rules and persist in direct self-promotion of their business activities.

C)Being rude to fellow members and criticising them for watching a particular TV programme, enjoying a particular region in Italy or simply indulging in a favourite pastime etc.

D)Being blatantly discriminatory against certain parts of Italy without just cause.

There are those of us of course who are more direct than others (I stand accused of having a go at John some time ago, although it was not personal) and many of you already know that when it comes to offering advice of a professional nature, I am not particularly tolerant of amateurs who give out misleading information. I am certainly not afraid of being critical whenever it is necessary and if people feel offended by it, then perhaps there is a ring of truth in my argument. After all, veritas odium parit!

Nobody should deny you the right to disagree with as many posts as you want, but for the sake of stimulating debate, any posting should, among other things, be coherent, incisive and penetrating backed up by unequivocal evidence to support your argument.

The next time you find yourself being furious with someone, just remember that aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem! I’ll leave you to work out what it means!

[QUOTE=giovanni]i know i have a wicked tonque and i am trying to curb it, also when i am aware that i have gone way too far, i will try to opologise.
but some can never be wrong.
[/QUOTE]

[color=black]Um…… I don't actually remember an apology from you Gio and you were very very wrong with what you accused me of. Do I care? No because what people say about me on this forum is not going to have any impact on my life what so ever.[/color]

[color=black]Sdoj I can understand your frustration that Will would not except your explanations, it's happened to me but to behave like a child is very irritating to others and would have lost any support you may have had. [/color]

[color=black]Before you accuse me of being a hypocrite, due to my number of posts to Adriatica about being depressing, I hope, is not quite the same because I'm not hounding him on every post, not abusive and still think that much of what he says is interesting and right. For instance most of this original post I agree with but do not think Sdoj has to be banned, that’s equally stupid! [/color]

[color=black]And Will, still think you have a great sense of humour, so not sure what went wrong this time, maybe it was the cyber joint? ;) [/color]

[color=black]I fear that people will stop posting if tempers continue to get out of control.:( [/color]

Forget the tittle-tattle, and back-biting (it's REALLY not worth it!) but take a look:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Jack-Russell-CD-Clock_W0QQitemZ5627673972QQcategoryZ88433QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[QUOTE=tuscanhills]Forget the tittle-tattle, and back-biting (it's REALLY not worth it!) but te a look:
thttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Jack-Russell-CD-Clock_W0QQitemZ5627673972QQcategoryZ88433QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/QUOTE]

[img]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=adriatica]... i think opening someones profile and replying to all their latest postings in this way is an abuse of that persons privacy and rights....[/QUOTE]

Hi John,
Just came back from a month's vacation, and just got back into the saddle, when I came across this thread. Have not and want not research the whole story, however, the above quoted phrase surprised me. Everthing we post on this forum is public and all members are free to spend their time looking back at everything we posted, and yes comment if they so desire. Am I wrong in seeing it this way?

Regards to you and all on this forum![img]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif[/img]

FrancisM

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca][color=black]Um…… I don't actually remember an apology from you Gio and you were very very wrong with what you accused me of. Do I care? No because what people say about me on this forum is not going to have any impact on my life what so ever.[/color]

[color=black]Sdoj I can understand your frustration that Will would not except your explanations, it's happened to me but to behave like a child is very irritating to others and would have lost any support you may have had. [/color]

[color=black]Before you accuse me of being a hypocrite, due to my number of posts to Adriatica about being depressing, I hope, is not quite the same because I'm not hounding him on every post, not abusive and still think that much of what he says is interesting and right. For instance most of this original post I agree with but do not think Sdoj has to be banned, that’s equally stupid! [/color]

[color=black]And Will, still think you have a great sense of humour, so not sure what went wrong this time, maybe it was the cyber joint? ;) [/color]

[color=black]I fear that people will stop posting if tempers continue to get out of control.:( [/color][/QUOTE]

i am sorry i do not recall what you are talking about, not because i am rude
but i don't always take notice of whom i am talking to.. that way i can freely
agree one day and disagree another.
i would ask you to remind me of the event as it seems it was blantently
enough of an offence for you to remember me.
on the otherhand maybe it would be best if we both forgot the incident as i
would assume offence was taken by us both.
what do you think.

[QUOTE=giovanni]i am sorry i do not recall what you are talking about, not because i am rude
but i don't always take notice of whom i am talking to.. that way i can freely
agree one day and disagree another.
i would ask you to remind me of the event as it seems it was blantently
enough of an offence for you to remember me.
on the otherhand maybe it would be best if we both forgot the incident as i
would assume offence was taken by us both.
what do you think.[/QUOTE]

All forgotten. :)

[QUOTE=Charles Joseph]Sdoj…for me, true abuse of Forum is:

A)When members resort to making attacks of a personal nature or posting childish remarks of a resentful nature.

B)When members continue to ignore Forum rules and persist in direct self-promotion of their business activities.

C)Being rude to fellow members and criticising them for watching a particular TV programme, enjoying a particular region in Italy or simply indulging in a favourite pastime etc.

D)Being blatantly discriminatory against certain parts of Italy without just cause.

There are those of us of course who are more direct than others (I stand accused of having a go at John some time ago, although it was not personal) and many of you already know that when it comes to offering advice of a professional nature, I am not particularly tolerant of amateurs who give out misleading information. I am certainly not afraid of being critical whenever it is necessary and if people feel offended by it, then perhaps there is a ring of truth in my argument. After all, veritas odium parit!

Nobody should deny you the right to disagree with as many posts as you want, but for the sake of stimulating debate, any posting should, among other things, be coherent, incisive and penetrating backed up by unequivocal evidence to support your argument.

The next time you find yourself being furious with someone, just remember that aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem! I’ll leave you to work out what it means![/QUOTE]

Are you suggesting that if I remain obedient to your 4 rules A-D that this should bring me friends? Well, in my opinion, I had been when I was ambushed by Will and called a racist. What should I have done about that?

[QUOTE=adriatica]yesterday i saw a blatant abuse of the forum in which one member obviously viwed the profile of another who seemed to have upset them and started posting willy nilly rubbish all over the place....

now i am not one to be able to openly criticise anyone for rubbish....i write enough myself... hopefully this sentence will suffice so that all of you dont have to be bored by someone chasing all my postings around the forum and getting at me...

... i have seen terriers with much the same mentality when rabitting in devon.... but they are dogs...bred to hang on

...i think arguement and debate is a good thing... i think opening someones profile and replying to all their latest postings in this way is an abuse of that persons privacy and rights....

...i could have pm to ronald.... but i think because this is a forum issue regarding all members why keep it private.... we all know there are tons of memebers on here that do not post...often you see first posters almost apologise for their question...is this to be a place of welcome or do we have to live in terror of someone getting upset enough to start an abusive campaign...

to all members that dont post because of worries about looking silly... from someone that has made a malpractice of it...go ahead.... if anyone gets to you .... just let them have a go...they are more stupid in their ignorance and abuse than anyone honest enough on here to post their views in an open and hopefully friendly forum

...personally i would like to see the member that did this banned or else made to chase georges postings around for the rest of his life...... is it 700 now....

sano ... please do not delete... and ronald you can reprimand me in public if you so wish

and my deepest apologies to all jack russels.....[/QUOTE]

Adriatica - I would not delete this post but hopefully you can appreciate why I delete others - when I perceive someone as being attacked I will remove/lock the thread. I am sorry if that offends others but at the end of the day unpleasantness has no place on these boards.

Sano,

I must say as one of the protagonists in the threads which were locked and removed, that I felt the mediation was fair and correct, the posts were getting nasty, whether justified or not, and I accept that it was correct they were removed from the forum,

the issue with Will is however a different one and, it looks like we may have lost an active, friendly helpful poster as a result

sano ... a joke...sorry if it came across in any other way...

francis m... realise says public profile.... but to me when you become a member of this forum then you accept certain civilised restrictions which although not listed should be as much as any regarded as common sense...the search facility in my own opinion via a memebers profile is to read their posts with a degree of interest in what they have to say...not to start trawling thru them to make them look silly.... or worse.... private may be the wrong word politeness maybe or honour or something that we often quote as our reason for leaving england ...to get away from the bad behaviour...generally pointed out by forum users as to do with children.... maybe we all need to think twice about our behaviour and have a little more respect for and a little bit more leeway in how we perceive others viewpoints...... ronald has made relevant posts recently....it made me think....

i would like to apologise to sdoj for comparing him to a jack russel... much as he lost his temper i did too... maybe a round of apologies to all concerned ...without trying to justify oneself wouldnt be a bad thing.... hopefully no one will reply anymore to this post ...

and maybe sano you could delete it...i think enoughs be said

[QUOTE=sdoj]Are you suggesting that if I remain obedient to your 4 rules A-D that this should bring me friends? Well, in my opinion, I had been when I was ambushed by Will and called a racist. What should I have done about that?[/QUOTE]

Maybe for those with trepidations about joining in our sometimes lively debates we should post Dante’s "lasciate ogni speranza, voi che’entrate" above the entrance door.

Humour aside, I agree wholeheartedly with Sano that unpleasantness has no place on these boards. There will be times when disagreement cannot be avoided, but there is absolutely no need for attacks of a personal nature. I have seen some postings in the past whereby members have been rebuked or ridiculed for no good reason.

I cannot comment or make a judgement on what was said to you without having seen the original post or examined the exact context within which the comment was made. However, from what you say, maybe Will should have responded to you in a more appropriate manner.

I would also add that my previous comments have nothing do with the issue of making friends or not. You asked for an opinion and you simply got one, which happens to be my view on Forum protocol. These are not my rules. They should follow from common sense, although Forum does have its own specific guidelines.

I suppose I was the one who started with the Latin with my mea culpa.

You then posted a motto more or less advising one to keep one's head when all about...but you also wrote: veritas odium parit, which is only an extract the other part being: obsequium amicos. This is why I was asking if your set of rules would win me friends.