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another piece of string question....

you will require permsion from the commune for both options... in a sense not permission but you will need to inform the commune that you are doing the second piece of work... how do i know ...well the commune told us we should have told them we were changing windows...

as regards the internal staircase... you will be changing it seems to me your cellar into a part of the house and this will require permission... and a project from a geometra .... the light levels and ceiling heights will all have to be inspected... the structual integrity examined and finally if approved the building work carried out.... i reckon if you examine your paperwork the habitable parts of your house will not include this cellar... always when thinking of adjustments try and make only those that involve already registerd habitable areas of your property.. its simpler and then height rules and light levels and sometimes even geometras do not have to be involved

We've bought a house that is half finished (no prob hubby a builder) and had a quote from the builder, who had started this project, to do exactly the same as your suggesting. This would eventually give us a further three huge bedrooms. Along with the geometra he had used for the last 25 years, they gave us a quote and also we wouldn't need permission.

I can't remember the exact figure but it was something crazy like 15,000 euro :eek: . Neal is driving over as we speak with the van loaded to the roof, and has all the house paperwork with him. Will send you a pm once I ask him when he phones later.

if a room isnt part of the habitalble area of the house and registered as such you cannot change it from cantena/storeroom or barn without permission and to get that permission even in an older property the restructuring has to conform to the standards...ie specific headroom... specific light levels and thats just the start.... and has to go thru the commune

if the property you bought was already under construction most probably the geometra had these plans reviewed and approved by the commune before....and maybe thats why he says you do not need to apply.... again... if they are not on the plans or the building project you are working to and you change anything from these plans / project then when the work is inspected and measured at the end by the technician from the commune it will need to aproved or you will be told to replace as it was

a geometra with a planned reconstruction cannot change plans halfway along without applying for a variance of those plans.... even by not fulfilling the plans and the project it seems you have taken over the work now...you have to be registered as the new director of work with all security/safety schedules in place.... with the commune before you can start

its not easy here to take over projects midway and even the whole planning stage sometimes has to be redone when changing geometras/ architects or director of works...

Hey up John, You can lead the horse to the water, but............. :) ;)

In our case the lower level isn't a storeroom and when we viewed it had a cooker and sink plumbed in and had beds and furniture and open fire so as you say it was habitable, so therefore thats reason why he says we wouldn't need the permission ;) Still a rediculous quote though. :mad:

If that quote for stairs is even vaguely close then I think we'll probably just put up with the independent entrance to the cellar.
The roof in the cellar is very low, so much so that I (5 foot 11 inches tall) have to stoop down in most parts... we had visualised it as a snug with low furniture, additional toilet and electricity. There is a small window. The floor is made of stone slabs, and i think the house is built on stone... meaning it might be difficult/costly to lower. Does anyone know if our plans will be possible with the height as it is, or should we look into lowering the floor?

will

here the regulation is at 2m 70 bathrooms the same

down the road you can build at 2,40 bathrooms 2,20..diferent commune

...each commune has its own regs.... you will have to check with a geometra...

what they do here is dig out the floor and put in what looks like upside down egg cartons which then allows air to circulate...otherwise you will be posting about damp problems...and then a finished floor on top...there are other alternatives but you do nee an outside wall which will allow air to come in below floor level...

as regards stairs... there are kits i have seen in castorama of circular stairways which are priced at around e3000 i think....

my advice in reality would be to take it slow..get settled in...get to know a few locals and then think about building projects... you will not be surprised to hear that when you get to know all the locals there is always someone living down the road who can do many of these jobs at a much lower price...

there is away around things... you have to maintain the cellar as a cellar and never call it anything else but...that way as a working cellar with water and fireplace it is not a habitable area and rules will not apply... this is a way around....not an entirely leagl way and if at one stage you were to sell the house you would have to have it listed as a cellar not a snug... my only concern is in offering this advice is that the staircase might cause it to be called otherwise... however take time and get to know a few people and then find out from your locals ...

"there is away around things... you have to maintain the cellar as a cellar and never call it anything else but...that way as a working cellar with water and fireplace it is not a habitable area and rules will not apply... this is a way around....not an entirely leagl way and if at one stage you were to sell the house you would have to have it listed as a cellar not a snug... my only concern is in offering this advice is that the staircase might cause it to be called otherwise... however take time and get to know a few people and then find out from your locals ..."

Many thanks for your help.
Fortunately I have a few friends in italy who are in the trades so i should be able to get discounts on most parts of the work, but I like the idea of not having to dig up the floor, and just keeping it officialy as a cellar... For how much extra permission, work and cost it would create, it might be better to forget about the stairs. Means we can spend more on finishes and get everything high spec.