½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Many people try to avoid registering their cars over here, for various reasons, which, I am sure make sense to them. There really are a couple of points you want to consider. The Italain law is NOT flexible on this point. Your annual green card may not pay out if there is a belief that you are fiddling the system in some ways, insurance companies the world over just hate paying money out. If you come across the wrong ½ûÂþÌìÌà cop a couple of years down the line, and he / she decides to check you out, you could end up walking home with a big fine in your pocket. :)

Thanks GeorgeS for the reply.
It's not really an attempt to directly "fiddle" the system - I think the law is fundamentally not 100% clear on this. What does it mean when the law states that a car has to be registered if driven in italy for more than 12 months? If fairly regular trips back to the UK are foreseen in that time (such that the car is never in Italy for more than 12 months at a time) then are you actually breaking that law?

The company behind the insurance policy (stuartcollins) make a point of stating on their website that their policies have been renewed for many consecutive years by their overseas customers. They know full well how the policy is used and actually market it as a specialist policy for people living abroad long term.

[QUOTE=simdim]What's to stop me say, taking the car back to the UK (or even simply out of Italy) once a year, and maybe keep proof of that most recent entry into italy (motorway receipts, Channel Tunnel booking, border crossing receipt at Mont Blanc etc). [/QUOTE]

Wouldn't you need to bring it back to the Uk once a year in any event to get it MOT'd? (Obviously not until it's 3 year old, I suppose...)
Am I missing something?

Confused of Cumbria and Calabria

If you are not a resident and can prove it (you must prove that you are out of Italy for at least 183 days out of the year) then you have no problem. Just because you don't have residency though (by going to the comune and applying for it) does not mean you are not a resident.

So what *is* the precise law for residents? Does the law apply to 12 months from when the vehicle entered the country or from when I entered the country?

I have dual UK and ½ûÂþÌìÌà nationality (though I was born in the UK), and am living and working in Italy now since March this year but have left my official residence as the UK (though clearly I will be in Italy for more than 183 days a year). In May I brought over my UK car to Italy and have left it with UK plates and insured/taxed in the UK. It seems that I can drive it for 12 months but then I need to tax/register it here in Italy. However I'm unclear on whether this is 12 months from when I became "resident" or from when I brought the car into Italy

Does this mean that as a resident in Italy (even if not registered as resident) I have absolutely no right after 12 months to drive a foreign-registered car in Italy for any length of time at all? This seems pretty draconian. If I continue to maintain UK citizenship, and have permanent links with the UK (eg. assets there, car etc), do I have no right ever again to drive that (or any) UK car in Italy after 12 months?

MY UNDERSTANDING is that the time allowed officially is six months from YOU taking up residency, I do not think there is any flexibility over this matter, although there are plenty of people who feel that they can flout this rule, however, if you're caught, if a suspicious Police officer checks you out, you would face potentially damaging fines, and could even have your car impounded, fighting the case could take ages too. Like I said, this is my understanding of the situation...

I'm pretty confused here!! I thought you couldn't register or insure your car in Italy unless you were a resident. I recently took a car to Italy and left it there because when I go for weekends or longer I need to be able to get around, to and from the airport etc. Without a car it would be impossible. At present the car is on UK plates and taxed and insured here, with a 12 month green card. I would love to have it changed to ½ûÂþÌìÌà plates and insured in Italy because that would be much simpler and I wouldn't have the problem of the mot. I have an apartment in Italy. Do I understand from previous correspondence on this thread that I can, in fact, register the car in Italy even if I am not officially "resident."?

Yours hopefully
Linda

The biggest difficulty is getting the vehicle MOT'd. If your car is not MOT'd then you can't renew your tax and if your car is not MOT'd or taxed then your insurance is void.

There's not really any way round that one unless you feel like an annual drive back to the UK (expensive!).

We are trying to register our vehicle in Italy - 3 months and still waiting!

What documents did you have to produce to get the car registered and where did you have to go?

[QUOTE=ferginitaly] At present the car is on UK plates and taxed and insured here, with a 12 month green card. I would love to have it changed to ½ûÂþÌìÌà plates and insured in Italy because that would be much simpler and I wouldn't have the problem of the mot. I have an apartment in Italy. Do I understand from previous correspondence on this thread that I can, in fact, register the car in Italy even if I am not officially "resident."?

Yours hopefully
Linda[/QUOTE]

Linda
I've been trying for some time to arrange insurance in the UK for a left hand drive car which I could then leave in Italy, returing it once a year for an MOT, and to tax it in UK.
However, irrespective of any problems which this might cause with the ½ûÂþÌìÌà authorities in the long term, the main obstacle I've encountered is that all the UK insurance companies and brokers I've approached (even specialist LHD ones) tell me they won't provide insurance for more than a TOTAL of 90 days per year outside the UK.
So, to add to your concerns, are you sure that your UK insurance is covering you for 12 months -- rather than for 90 days within the one-year period?
I'll watch this thread with a great deal of interest, as I'm hoping it will help me to crack the dilemma of how to have a car available to drive in Italy through the year without having permanent residency status.

rgds
Eddie B

Hi Eddie
I also tried lots of insurance companies, spoke to brokers and people in Italy. At the end of the day it seemed clear to me that there was no way round this problem. I simply informed my insurance company that I wanted to add another car to my policy. (I obviously have a car here in the UK where I am based most of the time.) The second car was added and my certificate of insurance automatically allows me to drive in the EU for the duration of the insurance (ie 1 year) The back of the certificate is printed in several European languages, saying that the insurance gives the minimum (3rd party) insurance required in the EU country. No green card was issued. My cousin tells me that his certificate is the same and I assumed that most insurance companies now issued this type of document, effectively doing away with green cards. HOWEVER as far as the insurance company is concerned, I am resident at my address in the UK with 2 cars on my policy. Both of which can be driven in the EC - with no restrictions as to how long each trip can last during the year of insurance cover. They do not know that the car is actually parked in Italy and only used as and when - because there seems to be no provision at all for this situation. The car which is left in Italy is not of much value, but obviously if you wanted to leave something more valuable there and needed fully comp. insurance then that would be a further complication.
Linda

Thanks, Linda. That's really very helpful. I'll certainly use what you say in trying out some more insurance companies.
Meanwhile, good luck with your own insurance etc quest.
rgds
Eddie B

Hi all,
I have added our lhd car to our existing policy (with Frizzell) and it can be out of the uk for up to 180 days (all policies seem to differ on the timescales).
We also had a quote from Stuart Collins and their page at [url]http://www.stuartcollins.com/services.shtml[/url] states
"Motor Insurance
For Long Term Use in Europe
We offer motor policies for UK registered vehicles that are outside the UK for the long term. The policy provides full cover across the continent of Europe, with only a few excluded countries and includes an ANNUAL Green Card. When circumstances dictate, the vehicle may be left abroad whilst the insured is in the UK. A local claims service is available in most countries.
Unlimited Temporary Travel to Europe
This requires the vehicle and the insured person to be based in the UK. It is ideal for:
People who take longer and more frequent holidays to Europe than most.
Those people whose business requires frequent trips to EU countries. "

We may well go back to Stuart Collins for an annual green card but at the moment our current policy suits our purposes.

Hope this helps,
Lesley

[QUOTE]MY UNDERSTANDING is that the time allowed officially is six months from YOU taking up residency, I do not think there is any flexibility over this matter, although there are plenty of people who feel that they can flout this rule, however, if you're caught, if a suspicious Police officer checks you out, you would face potentially damaging fines, and could even have your car impounded, fighting the case could take ages too. Like I said, this is my understanding of the situation...[/QUOTE]

Thanks GeorgeS for your very helpful reply.
Do you, or does anyone know, the answer to my question about what happens once those 6 (or 12) months are up? Assuming you take residency, and within the required timescale comply with ½ûÂþÌìÌà law by registering your UK car in Italy (or selling it in UK), after those months are up are you then never allowed to be caught driving a foreign car in Italy again?

Surely by maintaing UK nationality you have some justifiable right to drive a UK car within Italy at some point in the future even if you have been living as a resident in Italy for many years? And if so, is there then a limit on the amount of time that particular UK car can be/stay in Italy?

[QUOTE=simdim]I've moved to Rome to work in Italy for 3 or 4 years and stumbled across this forum whilst trying to find out about having a UK car in Italy. I see from these forums that quite a number of people have registered (or are thinking of registering) UK cars in Italy and am wondering if this is really necessary.

If you don't take up residency, you're meant to register your UK car here after a max of 12 months. However, who demonstrates or proves that the car has been in Italy for more than 12 months? What's to stop me say, taking the car back to the UK (or even simply out of Italy) once a year, and maybe keep proof of that most recent entry into italy (motorway receipts, Channel Tunnel booking, border crossing receipt at Mont Blanc etc). That way, if stopped, you are able to demonstrate that the car entered Italy less than 12 months ago.

Is there a good reason this wouldn't work in practice? I have my car insured in the UK with a 1 year green card with Stuart Collins ([url]www.stuartcollins.com[/url]) and was wondering if I'd be able to drive the UK car here in Italy at least for several years doing the above.[/QUOTE]

It might be a false problem in that if you're going to stay for 3/4 years even if the car is just out of the box you'll probably want to get rid of it by then anyway.My suggestion would be that to sell the car in the uk,take residency when you get here ,buy a new left hand drive car here sell it when you leave anyway you won't want to drive a right hand drive car here for years it's hard enough driving in Roma at all let alone with the drive on the other side!all the rest is too risky and complicated....

Imagine this, you have been here for 1 month longer than the time limit for "having" to import the car, it is insured, MOT'd and the British Road Tax is paid.
You leave your apartment, sober and commence driving superbly, at the first junction, you are sideswiped by a police car, being driven by the nephew of the mayor, and containing his best friend, the son of the chief of police. you are injured, and as you hand over your documents, you hear one of your neighbours say, I know him, he's lived in the flat next door to me for X months. When you wake up in hospital, how sure will you be that.

A) you have insurance

B) you have a car

C) the policeman sitting at the foot of your bed is going give you some grapes.

Please, if you ARE going to use YOUR system for coming over and driving, stop asking people to justify it, the majority of the replies are trying to warn you that you could end up in trouble, and most of those people have far more experience in being "½ûÂþÌìÌÃ" than I, you are coming to work in a different country than England with different laws and different ways of functioning, enjoy your stay here, good luck...

[QUOTE]Please, if you ARE going to use YOUR system for coming over and driving, stop asking people to justify it, the majority of the replies are trying to warn you that you could end up in trouble, and most of those people have far more experience in being "½ûÂþÌìÌÃ" than I, you are coming to work in a different country than England with different laws and different ways of functioning, enjoy your stay here, good luck...[/QUOTE]

Thanks again GeorgeS. I'm not really trying to justify anything, just to understand the technicalities of the law. I guess it's the italian in me that's trying to find a way to "play" or get round the system, rather than actually break the law.

The frustration is that I bought a brand new and rather nice car in the UK just days before the opportunity to work in Italy arose. Hence I've tried to hang on to it (and have done so for 5 months or so here) rather than sell it and lose several thousand pounds straight away! I hoped that I could keep it UK taxed/registered/insured for a few years whist I stay in Italy and still remain within some interpretation of the wording of the law by making sure it never stayed in Italy for more than 12 consecutive months. Especially since my UK employer had agreed to pay the higher insurance costs associated with an annual green card and was willing to pay for an annual drive back to the UK!

In any case, the help I've found on this forum has been very useful thanks, and alas I'm resigning myself to the fact that I'm gonna have to drive it back to blightey and sell it.... :(

[QUOTE=ferginitaly]What documents did you have to produce to get the car registered and where did you have to go?[/QUOTE]

I had to produce my residenza, my driving licence, the log book and I can't remember if it was the passport too or not - sorry it feels like a long time ago!

We went to the local driving school who act as an agency for sorting out these things. We were told the costs would be around €280. Ask your neighbours to tell you where to go.

Our complication is that the vehicle we are registering is a RHD Japanese import to the UK and all it's paperwork is in Japanese. The agency had to write to Toyota to get a technical spec of the car (€270!!!) and we are still waiting for our inspection. I drove a LHD Fiat Barchetta in the UK for years so driving a RHD here doesn't bother me but I know some people find it harder.

The UK log books just do not hold enough info about the vehicle for the ½ûÂþÌìÌà authorities to issue a Libretto. It is OK if the car is fairly new as all newish cars have to have a European certificate of compliance which holds all this info. If it is an older car then you too will have to get a technical spec from the manufacturer.

The UK registered LHD new Fiat Panda we have as our other car should hopefully be a little easier!!

Thanks for the info Penny. Sounds a bit of a nightmare. As my Renault Clio was originally imported into the UK from France, I don't know if there would even be enough info on the log book. Think I'll just leave it on UK plates for the time being.
Linda

[QUOTE=EddieB]
I've been trying for some time to arrange insurance in the UK for a left hand drive car which I could then leave in Italy, returing it once a year for an MOT, and to tax it in UK.
However, irrespective of any problems which this might cause with the ½ûÂþÌìÌà authorities in the long term, the main obstacle I've encountered is that all the UK insurance companies and brokers I've approached (even specialist LHD ones) tell me they won't provide insurance for more than a TOTAL of 90 days per year outside the UK.
So, to add to your concerns, are you sure that your UK insurance is covering you for 12 months -- rather than for 90 days within the one-year period?
I'll watch this thread with a great deal of interest, as I'm hoping it will help me to crack the dilemma of how to have a car available to drive in Italy through the year without having permanent residency status.
[/QUOTE]

Forgive my quoting myself (it adds spice to my conversation, as Shaw said!) but I've done so to add emphasis to how useful I've found the website ([url]http://www.stuartcollins.com/services.shtml[/url] ) recommended by Lesley in resolving my difficulty.
It's not that I would wish to disregard ½ûÂþÌìÌà laws in any way; my problem has been that because I can't have ½ûÂþÌìÌà residency without spending more time in Italy, I can't insure a car there with an ½ûÂþÌìÌà company. However -- thanks to Lesley's guidance -- I can now insure a car in the UK and drive it legally and properly in Italy throughout the 12 months of the insurance (returning it for MOT etc). No sleight of hand, nothing illegal nor disrespectful of ½ûÂþÌìÌà law.
For me at least, a result. Many thanks to Lesley, Linda and all who helped. Now, can I get a car and insurance organised in time for my next scheduled drive down to Calabria in lkess than a fortnight?
rgds
Eddie B

Thanks for the thanks, EddieB but I'd only found the Stuart Collins site because some other kind soul on the forum cited them a while ago when I was looking up the very same subject.

Nice to be able to pass on something I'd learned here previously :D