½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Hi Julie,

What a nightmare.....please update us, as it looked like we may have had a pre-exemption deal on our property in Puglia, but our lawyer sorted it out before we signed on the dotted line...still very interested and the best of luck.
Lyn

[QUOTE=JulieD]We bought a cottage in Lunigiana, Northern Tuscany, 2 and a half years ago. 13 months after initial registration, a bailiff turned up at our home in England to serve papers on us - a claim from a neighbour, who was a registered farmer, on our land (a small vineyard, which also serves as our garden), due to a "pre-emption right". This case has now been adjourned 3 times by the court - although we were told that the farmer had no claim due to : (1) the papers were served outside of 12 months from the property being registered and (2) the papers were only served on myself (the property is jointly owned with my partner). The next court hearing is in Sept. Our Estate Agent has employed a lawyer on our behalf - and we are continually advised that we will not lose our land. Yet the court keeps adjourning the case, seemingly to allow the claimant to get his act together.

Has anyone else had a similar problem ? If so, what was the outcome ? What advice were you given ?

Any feedback would be gratefully received.........[/QUOTE]

It seems you should win the case.
The "pre-emption right" is a right wich is given by the law to a "coltivatore diretto" , that is a farmer who personally cultivate his land, that must be close to ypiur land
If he wonts to claim his right, he has to start the case before a court within 12 mounths form the registration of your purchase, so it seems that in your case he's late.

Thank you for your reassurance - however, what mystifies us is why the judge keeps adjourning the case - shouldn't it just be a formality ?

[QUOTE=JulieD]Thank you for your reassurance - however, what mystifies us is why the judge keeps adjourning the case - shouldn't it just be a formality ?[/QUOTE]

I'm afraid you'll wait for a long time for the sentence.
It's not the judge that's adjourning the case, but probably it's just the procedure (long and complicated) that needs it.

JuliedD your thread not only highlights the importance of checking everything before committing to a purchase (weren’t you informed about the possibility of pre-emption rights when you were negotiating the purchase?), but also serves to illustrate that Roman law and English law have different juridical principles, all the more reason to seek and obtain the proper professional advice at the start.

In this particular case the plaintiff, assuming he is in the position to claim proprietary remedies, will now seek to recover the land by proving that he has the right to buy in preference to you, although, as Notaio says, he should have done this within 12 months from the date of the Atto Pubblico. The judge will decide the merits of the case but the process is not straightforward as Notaio already points out.

With regards to rights of pre-emption there are 2 types that I am aware of: 1) prelazioni agrarie for farmers and tenant farmers and 2) prelazioni coereditarie for heirs who have a share in the property.

Each has its own set of complications and overseas buyers should be aware that it is in their best interests to sort these out well in advance. Not all estate agents will bother to explain (they may not even be able or qualified to do so) what these mean and what the legal consequences are so don’t rely on them to flag these up or provide you with a solution. Apart from ensuring that the parties involved are willing to give up their rights, in some cases, and if it is practical to do so, it pays to get to know who they are. You’ll be surprised how effective sitting down with your neighbours can be.

As with all these things it is a simple case of caveat emptor and prevention is definitely better than cure.

Charles, was that the reason I was given several sheets of documentation, signed by the neighbouring land owners and the renter of the land here at the time of completion, and told to retain them for a year ??

Julie
Sorry to hear about your problem and hope it gets resolved for you quickly.
We have a little tale to tell for those of you who haven't made the step to buy yet and how not to believe everything your agent tells you.

When putting in our offer and since, we checked with the agent on a number of occasions that neighbours and relatives had signed away all their rights to our property. We were told that this was being dealt with and not to worry.

Us being Mr and Mrs Sceptic from Britain asked for evidence that this had actually been done. No evidence arrived so we rang the agent. The agent said that we weren't to worry about this as it was a waste of time getting any of these signatures and the best way is to register the full price of the property, that way the farmers wouldn't want to pay the higher price anyway. Although we had little knowledge of the law we didn't feel this was right.

In the following weeks we were told that suddenly all the documents had been sent to the neighbours and not to worry as they had all signed. Then were told well actually they haven't as one is being difficult and won't sign because he wants us to buy his land. Then we were told due to the difficult neighbour, official documents had to be issued and as by law this takes 30 days so the completion date would have to be delayed. (we understood it should be 60 days and thought this had already been done!)

We were then told due to this diffecult neighbour that the completion date had to be delayed yet again to the end of September, the original was the beginning of July! (nothing to do with the agent of course!)

We hasten to add that this is now in the hands of our newly appointed lawyer and a big thank you to this forum because without all the information gained from here (in particular Mr Joseph) we may have just believed our agent in the first place and then possibly be in the same situation as Julie or worse.

It is a shame, as we know there are some very good and genuine agents around but we just didn't pick one of them!

Apparently properties can be with more than one agent so it may pay to search around to find the best agent. How you actually know this, we don't have the answer apart from recomendation and wish we had found this forum sooner. :rolleyes:

pre emption rights are a real nightmare in land purchases, even for notaries, because the notaio could be considered responsable if had not given advice to the buyer about this problem.

A big question is: Who can be considered "coltivatore diretto" ?
As I wrote, a coltivatore diretto is a person that personally cultivate the land.
It's not necessary to be inscribed in some kind of public record or register, he just need to cultivate his/her land, even if he has another job, even if the income he gets from the land is small part of his total incomes.
So, everyone (even you english friends), if personally cutivate the land he's bought, can be considered a coltivatore diretto and gain his preemption right

A second problem is, once again, the price declared in the atto pubblico.
The law says that the vendor have to inform his neighbours with pre emption rights after the compromesso (preliminary contract) and if they don't wont to buy within 1 mounth, the parties are free to sign the atto pubblico with the notary.
Of course, if the price declared in the atto pubblico is not the same of the compromesso (as usual), the neighbour can easly say "I didn't won to buy at that price, but I wont at THIS price".

A solution is to call the neighbours to sign, in the atto pubblico, that they don't wont to buy the land.
As Charles said, this the typical matter where a legal advice is necessary, so don't esithate to ask for advice to a notary

Sorry notaio should have mentioned your name too, your information has also been very helpful and thank you for being on the forum. :o

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]Charles, was that the reason I was given several sheets of documentation, signed by the neighbouring land owners and the renter of the land here at the time of completion, and told to retain them for a year ??[/QUOTE]

I guess this document contains the signatures of neighbours who have given up their prelazioni. If this is the case you should retain them period. What else does the document contain?

Can anyone clarify what constitutes the 'land' that might be subject to pre-emption rights? Would this include the house itself and its garden, or only adjacent land which is classified as agricultural, as opposed to 'urbanised'
My neighbours are in the process of selling their house. Their land consists of the plot of land the house sits on and its garden, plus a few small 'particelle' of olive grove, which are contiguous with the neighbouring farmer's olive grove. Presumably he only has the right of 'first refusal' on the latter?

I've heard that one way round this problem is to raise the stated price of the land to a somewhat high level and reduce that of the house by the same amount, in order to lock the farmer out.

[QUOTE=Marc]Can anyone clarify what constitutes the 'land' that might be subject to pre-emption rights? Would this include the house itself and its garden, or only adjacent land which is classified as agricultural, as opposed to 'urbanised'
My neighbours are in the process of selling their house. Their land consists of the plot of land the house sits on and its garden, plus a few small 'particelle' of olive grove, which are contiguous with the neighbouring farmer's olive grove. Presumably he only has the right of 'first refusal' on the latter?

I've heard that one way round this problem is to raise the stated price of the land to a somewhat high level and reduce that of the house by the same amount, in order to lock the farmer out.[/QUOTE]

- The land is only the agricaltural one
- House with garden has no problem if the garden is a pertinence of the house: ie "corte urbana"
- re. your neighbours: the small particelle (plots) could be "pre-empted" (correct in english ?) and only the neighbour who is contiguous to the land has tihs right
- Yes you could split the price, one for the house and one for the land, but I remind you that the taxation on land purchase is 18%

not much help with the past problems..... but to me it would appear quite simple when purchasing property with land that is not urban... and that the ownership of the land is an important factor for you in the decision to purchase the house.... make a condition to buy in the preliminary contract that the purchase will only go ahead if the neighbours with rights have all signed a piece of paper giving up their right to purchase what will be your land.... make the time also conditional and if the agent wants to sell the place then he will make sure these papers are signed by all and on time...... that way the owner then is responsible for getting these signatures which he will use either his geometra/estate agent to get and has also guaranteed you that this will take place..... if anyone involved in the sale knows of aproblematic situation they will be hesitant to sign the preliminary contract with its penalties and you will have have your first suspicions that the ale is not as simple as it might appear and that maybe you should walk away from it

comments from notaio about the feasability of this????

´³´Ç³ó²Ô…

It is worth stating here that a very important characteristic of Roman law is the clarity with which brings out the notion of ownership and the difference between property and possession, as well as the distinction between land and other property. These concepts need to be explained to the overseas buyer in unequivocal terms. This is why it is wise to seek independent and professional legal advice right at the very beginning. I cannot overemphasise the importance of this point.

You could of course make the purchase conditional and you can even do this in the initial proposta irrevocabile d’acquisto so that as the buyer not only do you gain extra peace of mind knowing that the property is taken off the market, your position is made clear in that the offer shall be terminated without penalty in the event that the conditions are not met.

However you approach it, the documentation still needs to be carefully drafted in order to avoid any potential loopholes.

Once again I agree with Charles.

As I wrote, the pre-emption matter on agricoltural land is very complicated, also because most of it is not "written" by the law, but by the decisions of the courts.
The procedure in itself is quite simple.
1 - If there is a compromesso signed, the vendor must send a comunication to the neighbours that personally cultivate the land, reporting the price and asking them if they wont to buy at the same price of the compromesso.
They must accept within 1 mounths and if they don't do so, the parties are free to sign the atto pubblico, with whom the property is transferred to the buyer.
2 - If the vendor sends no comunication, the neighbours have 1 year from the transcription of the atto pubblico to act before the Tribunale (Court) for their right of pre-emption.
3 - If in the atto pubblico there is a price different from the one previously indicated in the compromesso,(declared prices - remember?) the neighbour has again the right to obtain the property, because the price is changed ("I didn't wont to buy at THAT price, but I wont at THIS price").
For this reason you have to be very carefull with declarations signed by the neighbours before the atto pubblico: if they renounce at the price of the compromesso, their renounce is not valid for the price of the atto pubblico if this is different.
The best solution is to call the neighbours before the notaio and make them sign the renounce at the pre-emption in the atto pubblico: in this way you're save.
4 - It's clear that if there are pre-emption rights related to the land you're are going to buy, you need guarantees from the vendor and from the estate agents (if there's one). A good idea is to ask the vendor and the agent to guarantee, with a penalty, that there are no pre-emption rights or, better don't pay anything unless you've veryfied the pre-emption.

The risk is not just to loose the money you gave to the vendor at the moment of the compromesso or at the moment of proposta irrevocabile, because the neighbour, when decides to get the property, must give you the money you already gave to the vendor, the real risk is to loose opportunities ("I bought this land instead of that one"), to make purchases with no more utility and in general waste money.

hello, i am new to the forum and we are just about to make an offer on an ½ûÂþÌìÌà property.

Where can we find some further information on these pre emption rights?

Julie, do you have an update on your current legal battle in Court?

[QUOTE=notaio]- The land is only the agricaltural one
- House with garden has no problem if the garden is a pertinence of the house: ie "corte urbana"[/QUOTE]
Notaio, that observation is of interest to me. Our neighbour made an offer to us a few years ago to buy his (empty) house and the land. We would like to do this, but after talking for a short period the neighbour decided not to sell.

Since that time, the neighbour decided to rent the house to a hunting club, for use as a place to sleep at weekends and to make arrosticini and drink beer. The hunting club has now decided to move to another house and it is possible that the house will be offered for sale again.

We have always thought that the sale of the land would present no problem to us. We own all the land adjoining one side of the house and the two other neighbours have no interest in buying the house and land. However the amount of land with the house is small, less than one hectare.

The house and land are surrounded on all sides by agricultural land. The land attached to the house is used for agriculture (olives and almonds). We thought up to now that when the house was offered for sale we would have the right of pre-emption, do you think it would be possible or our neighbour to sell the house without giving us the right to purchase at a fair price?

This law is an absolute nightmare.

I was in the process of buying a house, in a village with some olive trees in the 100M2 garden.

Whilst looking at the house - a neighbour came along and indicated they still wanted to work on the land.

I thought - as the house was in a village it would not be agricolo - but it was - it was agricolo urbano!!!

JHowell recommended that I get signatures - which I tried - but got told by the agent noone was interested in the land, but I couldnt have signatures.

Then the vendor put the price of the house up 10%.

I have had to walk away - after paying legal fees.

JHowell - also recommended pricing up the land/house to the full asking price - so the land became less inviting.

But then I thought - this gets registered in the local registry office - so if I was to sell my house in the future - it would be higher than everyone elses pro-rata - and so less sellable to the locals

(Is there a web site somewhere - that lists English speaking lawyers in Italy)

A local Notaio informed some friends of ours that the right of pre-emption ('prelazione') applies only to areas of land in excess of 5,000 square metres (or half a Hectare)

We are in the process of buying a property with only 2,500 sq metres and have been told that pre-emption rights apply and need to be sorted before completion of the sale. As there are twelve different parcels of land that join ours at some point, god knows how many neighbours we might have!

be careful,be very careful
we were nearly caught out when we bought and we know people who were and who had to buy out the neighbouring farmer who exercised his right to buy-it cost them a a lot
about a week before our own atto was to take place the agent told us he had identified 3 more coltivatori diretti (this is the key phrase) who had to be notified of the sale so the atto was delayed about 6 weeks
my advice would be:
1.get the agent to confirm in writing he has identifed and served notice on all the coltivatori diretti and none of them have replied
2.get the notaio in due course to put a clause in the rogito to this effect
3.don't be tempted to underdeclare the price of the land by too much
4.try to find out if there are any disputes between your seller and any of the neighbours
5.if in doubt get a local lawyer

Thanks for the advice Robert but we are not buying through an agent. We do however have ½ûÂþÌìÌà solicitors based in London acting on our behalf and in the process of sorting it all out.

We have already bought and managed to sort out our pre-exemption problems with our lawyer and now we are trying to protect ourselves if ever we sell or when our sons inherit.

If we hire people to do work on the land on a daily basis does this give them any rights ?

For example , Gino was hired for 3 days to rotivate the land. We are now considering getting him in again next year to give Olive grove a thorough pruning, and we may need help with the harvest. These would all be for a few days each time. Would be grateful for any thoughts.

[QUOTE=alex and lyn]

If we hire people to do work on the land on a daily basis does this give them any rights ?

QUOTE]

You've hit the nail on the head - thats exactly what I was going to ask!!!! Does it extend the 1 year law indefinitely?

My understanding is this, Only eligible to claim are owners who are registered as farmers with land meeting yours, sharing a boundary... BUT, if you RENT your land out to another person without having a properly constructed contract there is the possibility that you can GIVE rights to that person... However, if you HIRE someone on a daily basis to WORK ON THE LAND FOR YOU, you are merely hiring labour and give them NO RIGHTS.

We've finally sussed it !!!! :)

Thanks george...now we really have a chance of making a go of the olive grove without fear of compromising the land. :)

A contract really wasn't viable as lawyer wanted 1500 euros to do it :( and at the moment anyway, we don't want someone permanently here 'faffing' about !!!!!!! We'd rather 'faff' ourselves when the mood takes us !!!!! )

At the moment we are 'cleaning' under the trees..quite fulfilling really ...except for the blisters on my hands !!!! Next step to put in the long dangling tubes ...that should be a laugh !!! :D

What is the weather like in the rest of Italy....been really quite chilly here in Puglia ( bit better today ) ...still no rain...but cool wind...I thought we would be sweltering in August....locals tell us very unusual weather ..is it the same in the rest of italy ?

Remember, I said "my understanding" :eek: weather just turned glorious here, off to Servigliano tomorrow for the jousting thingy so hope the weather stays nice.

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]My understanding is this, Only eligible to claim are owners who are registered as farmers with land meeting yours, sharing a boundary... BUT, if you RENT your land out to another person without having a properly constructed contract there is the possibility that you can GIVE rights to that person... However, if you HIRE someone on a daily basis to WORK ON THE LAND FOR YOU, you are merely hiring labour and give them NO RIGHTS.[/QUOTE]
you are 80% correct.
a person sharing a boundary with your land doesn`t need to be a "registered farmer" to claim pre emption rights.
as i wrote in thid thread, all he has to do is personally cultivate the land.
about hiring or renting:
only if you RENT your land the tenant, if he is a coltivatore diretto, has rights, otherwise NO.

[QUOTE=lotaresco]Notaio, that observation is of interest to me. Our neighbour made an offer to us a few years ago to buy his (empty) house and the land. We would like to do this, but after talking for a short period the neighbour decided not to sell.

Since that time, the neighbour decided to rent the house to a hunting club, for use as a place to sleep at weekends and to make arrosticini and drink beer. The hunting club has now decided to move to another house and it is possible that the house will be offered for sale again.

We have always thought that the sale of the land would present no problem to us. We own all the land adjoining one side of the house and the two other neighbours have no interest in buying the house and land. However the amount of land with the house is small, less than one hectare.

The house and land are surrounded on all sides by agricultural land. The land attached to the house is used for agriculture (olives and almonds). We thought up to now that when the house was offered for sale we would have the right of pre-emption, do you think it would be possible or our neighbour to sell the house without giving us the right to purchase at a fair price?[/QUOTE]

sorry for the delay, but i am on holiday.
you have to consider that pre emption is about land and not about houses, unless the house could be considered as a pertinenza (i`d translate it with attachement) of the land.
this is the case of fabbricati rurali, but they need more than 10000 mq.
in your case i see no problem with the land, if it is still rural, while it seems to me that you have no specific right with the houe.
you shoud verify if the house is rural or urban
let me know

[QUOTE=notaio]you are 80% correct.
a person sharing a boundary with your land doesn`t need to be a "registered farmer" to claim pre emption rights.
as i wrote in thid thread, all he has to do is personally cultivate the land.
about hiring or renting:
only if you RENT your land the tenant, if he is a coltivatore diretto, has rights, otherwise NO.[/QUOTE]

Thank You Notaio. :)

Following the comment of GeorgeS concerning only adjacent owners have these rights, can I assume that in our case i.e. The farmer has created our parcel of land from a couple of blocks wholly surrounded by his land (a small island within his farmland) and since he is the only adjacent owner these rights do not apply.

Regards

Dave & Dawn

[QUOTE=YNot]Following the comment of GeorgeS concerning only adjacent owners have these rights, can I assume that in our case i.e. The farmer has created our parcel of land from a couple of blocks wholly surrounded by his land (a small island within his farmland) and since he is the only adjacent owner these rights do not apply.

Regards

Dave & Dawn[/QUOTE]

Yes it is correct

[QUOTE=notaio]sorry for the delay, but i am on holiday.
you have to consider that pre emption is about land and not about houses, unless the house could be considered as a pertinenza (i`d translate it with attachement) of the land.
this is the case of fabbricati rurali, but they need more than 10000 mq.
in your case i see no problem with the land, if it is still rural, while it seems to me that you have no specific right with the houe.
you shoud verify if the house is rural or urban
let me know[/QUOTE]

Does the position change for future sales once the land is re-registered in the urban registry? We are buying more than 10,000 mq so wonder if there is something we have not been told; do we infer that the both the land and house could be subject to pre-emption in our case.

[QUOTE=Poetica]Does the position change for future sales once the land is re-registered in the urban registry? We are buying more than 10,000 mq so wonder if there is something we have not been told; do we infer that the both the land and house could be subject to pre-emption in our case.[/QUOTE]

If the land changes in urban (it's a decision of your comune: it means that you can build on your land) you're out of pre-emption problem.
If you're now buying a land with a house, first of all you have to verify if the house is fabbricato rurale (rural house) or urban house.
In the first case you might have problems, because the house could be considered at the service of the land and so under the pre-emption rights.
This doesn't happen automatically, because the person who claims the right of pre-emption must prove the relation between the land and the house, that is that the house is "at the service" of the land and not used for other reasons, i.e. living, working not for agricolture etc.

Have I understood this correctly?

We have been told by our Geometra that all the properties are being moved to the urban register and that will include our house. We have a large amount (110.000m2) of land all of which is curently in the rurale register (the house has a cadastrale value of zero in this register). Our land is currently rented to a farmer but we do intend to cultivate it ourselves in the future.

Does this mean that when the house is registered in the urban registry the land will be too and that means it may now be built on?

[QUOTE=Penny]Have I understood this correctly?

We have been told by our Geometra that all the properties are being moved to the urban register and that will include our house. We have a large amount (110.000m2) of land all of which is curently in the rurale register (the house has a cadastrale value of zero in this register). Our land is currently rented to a farmer but we do intend to cultivate it ourselves in the future.

Does this mean that when the house is registered in the urban registry the land will be too and that means it may now be built on?[/QUOTE]

Well, naturally I'm not a geometra and so this is not my job, but there are some conditions that can help to keep your house still "rural" (zero tax value).
The main are the amount of land and the job of the land owner: is if he is or not a "farmer".
I'm sure your geometra knows this all and can advices you fine.

If the house will became urban, the land will not be registered in the urban registry, but only the house (plus may be a small area around the house - corte urbana).
This has effects only with taxes, since the house starts having a fiscal value (ICI, etc.).
The land will remain in the rural registry (catasto terreni).
The decision to allow you to build or not on your land is up to your comune, in accordance to Piano Regolatore Generale.
That is the general plan that divides the town territory in areas where people can build, where are allowed industries, commercial zone, parks, rural activities etc.
So if the area where your land is is a rural area (for agricultural activities only) you're not allowed to build new houses, but only - maybe - some buildings necessary for that activity: you ned to verify the Piano Regolatore.

[QUOTE=notaio]you are 80% correct.
a person sharing a boundary with your land doesn`t need to be a "registered farmer" to claim pre emption rights.
as i wrote in thid thread, all he has to do is personally cultivate the land.
about hiring or renting:
only if you RENT your land the tenant, if he is a coltivatore diretto, has rights, otherwise NO.[/QUOTE]

Just re-reading this and trying to make sense.

If we have a verbal agreement with an adjacent farmer that he cultivates our land until such time as we want to do it ourselves we do not run the risk of ceding rights to that land? No money or value passes; the deal is he keeps the crop/cash from sale, we get our land cultivated and the house is monitored.

Would those with experience or the appropriate legal knowledge advise a formal contract?

[QUOTE=Poetica]Just re-reading this and trying to make sense.

If we have a verbal agreement with an adjacent farmer that he cultivates our land until such time as we want to do it ourselves we do not run the risk of ceding rights to that land? No money or value passes; the deal is he keeps the crop/cash from sale, we get our land cultivated and the house is monitored.

Would those with experience or the appropriate legal knowledge advise a formal contract?[/QUOTE]

It doesn't seem (repeat [B]seem[/B]) that your adjacent farmer might have any kind of right.
There is no written contract, he's not using your land as a tenant, he's not paying money and you're maintaining the detention of the land, infact, if I've correctly understood, you're free, at any moment, to use and cultivate the land.
It's more an informal agreement whith whom you have you house monitored and the land clean and as compensation, he keeps the crop from sale.
Please consider that this is just a mere opinion, without direct knowledge of the situation.

[QUOTE=notaio]It doesn't seem (repeat [B]seem[/B]) that your adjacent farmer might have any kind of right.
There is no written contract, he's not using your land as a tenant, he's not paying money and you're maintaining the detention of the land, infact, if I've correctly understood, you're free, at any moment, to use and cultivate the land.
It's more an informal agreement whith whom you have you house monitored and the land clean and as compensation, he keeps the crop from sale.
Please consider that this is just a mere opinion, without direct knowledge of the situation.[/QUOTE]

Notaio,

After reading all the posts in this secion I have a question for you. If I were to sell my property in italy which consits of a villa and an olive grove would I have to initialy offer the oportunity to my neighbor even if he is not a cultivator? Would he have the first rights to purchase the property?

[QUOTE=Frank]Notaio,

After reading all the posts in this secion I have a question for you. If I were to sell my property in italy which consits of a villa and an olive grove would I have to initialy offer the oportunity to my neighbor even if he is not a cultivator? Would he have the first rights to purchase the property?[/QUOTE]

If he is not a cultivatur (coltivatore diretto) in the way describeded in this thread, ha has no right.
Moreover, if we're talking of a villa (house) and not of a fabbricato rurale (rural house) the building is anyhow out of the pre-emption problem.

[QUOTE=notaio]If he is not a cultivatur (coltivatore diretto) in the way describeded in this thread, ha has no right.
Moreover, if we're talking of a villa (house) and not of a fabbricato rurale (rural house) the building is anyhow out of the pre-emption problem.[/QUOTE]

What is the difference between the two. My house is not directly located in the town. It is about 10 KM from the town center. Would this be concidered rural?
What constitutes a cultivator? Does he have to be a registered farmer or can it be anybody with a pick and shovel?

Notaio,

Every year we have our land turned, our trees pruned and our olives processed into olive oil. Some of it we keep and the rest we sell to the local Co-op. As I do not live in Italy but my mom does are we concidered cultivators? The land is in the name of my mother, my brother and my sister.

The reason I ask is this!! Our property is located next to a hotel. If the owner decides to sell the hotel do we have the first choice of purchasing the property?

Does this also apply to anyone else who shares boundries with our property.

[QUOTE=notaio]It doesn't seem (repeat [B]seem[/B]) that your adjacent farmer might have any kind of right.
There is no written contract, he's not using your land as a tenant, he's not paying money and you're maintaining the detention of the land, infact, if I've correctly understood, you're free, at any moment, to use and cultivate the land.
It's more an informal agreement whith whom you have you house monitored and the land clean and as compensation, he keeps the crop from sale.
Please consider that this is just a mere opinion, without direct knowledge of the situation.[/QUOTE]

Notaio - thanks for the steer; your caveat noted.

[QUOTE=Frank]What is the difference between the two. My house is not directly located in the town. It is about 10 KM from the town center. Would this be concidered rural?
What constitutes a cultivator? Does he have to be a registered farmer or can it be anybody with a pick and shovel?[/QUOTE]

Rural buildings (fabbricati rurali) are a buildings "at the service of the agriculture", that is thay can be used only for activities concering farming: they might be stallses, warehouses etc. but also houses, where farmers can live in.
Rural buildings have no value for the catasto, since their value is included in the land value.
If the building is separated from the land, i.e. if the owner sells all the plots, but not the building, it has no more reasons to be considered rural and must be transferred in the catasto urbano. After this it gets a fiscal value (rendita catastale) and turns into a "common" building, no matter if it's situated in a town or in the countryside.
So answering your question, first of all you have to consider the cadasrtial data of tour house

About cultivator (coltivatore diretto): he doesn't need to be a registered farmer, he can it be anybody "with a pick and shovel" that [B]personally[/B] or with his/her family, cultivates the land: the key word is "PERSONALLY"

[QUOTE=Frank]Notaio,

Every year we have our land turned, our trees pruned and our olives processed into olive oil. Some of it we keep and the rest we sell to the local Co-op. As I do not live in Italy but my mom does are we concidered cultivators? The land is in the name of my mother, my brother and my sister.

The reason I ask is this!! Our property is located next to a hotel. If the owner decides to sell the hotel do we have the first choice of purchasing the property?

Does this also apply to anyone else who shares boundries with our property.[/QUOTE]

Pre-empition is only about agricultural land, so no rights about the hotel
If your relatives cultivate the personally the land (see my previous answer) they might have rights on the other properties that share boundries with their property, IF these properties are "rural lands" (terreno agricolo).
I hope it's clear

Are the rights which a tenant farmer or coltivatori diretto enjoyed with the vendor immediately extinguished on transfer of land to the purchaser? I (think!) I understand the pre-emption situation, but it has been suggested that even if the pre-emption right is not exercised the prior right to farm the land can be carried over to the new owner.

Grateful for clarification.

[QUOTE=Poetica]Are the rights which a tenant farmer or coltivatori diretto enjoyed with the vendor immediately extinguished on transfer of land to the purchaser? I (think!) I understand the pre-emption situation, but it has been suggested that even if the pre-emption right is not exercised the prior right to farm the land can be carried over to the new owner.

Grateful for clarification.[/QUOTE]

The tenant will keep on farming the land (paying the fee to new owner of course) for the remaining period established in the contract signed with the old owner (vendor).
The farmer, if there's a contract, enjoys the right to farm the land and keep the fruits and has the duty to pay a fee to the landlord.
These duties and rights are established in a contract that's binding for a specific period, even if, meanwhile, the landlord changes, beause of a purchase.
Isn't it the same in UK, i.e. when the landlord sells a house where there's a tenant ?

Isn't it the same in UK, i.e. when the landlord sells a house where there's a tenant ?

In theory yes Notaio. The problem in the UK is that some 'sitting tenants' understand the law too well. For example, in certain circumstances the rights of the 'sitting tenant' can be passed on to relatives, even though they are not mentioned on the original tenancy agreement. It really is a bit of a legal minefield.

[QUOTE=notaio]The tenant will keep on farming the land (paying the fee to new owner of course) for the remaining period established in the contract signed with the old owner (vendor).
The farmer, if there's a contract, enjoys the right to farm the land and keep the fruits and has the duty to pay a fee to the landlord.
These duties and rights are established in a contract that's binding for a specific period, even if, meanwhile, the landlord changes, beause of a purchase.
Isn't it the same in UK, i.e. when the landlord sells a house where there's a tenant ?[/QUOTE]

How would I know from the various documents in the compravendita, whether land has been transferred to the urban register?

On the question of tenant famers, presumably a contract can be verbal or written but how does the law operate in the case of a verbal agreement where there is no authoritative witness to the alleged agreement (or if the written contract cannot be produced)? Is there a defined statutory period? And is there any automatic right for the tenant to extend the agreement at the end of the original term?

[QUOTE=notaio]... Isn't it the same in UK, i.e. when the landlord sells a house where there's a tenant?[/QUOTE]
Yes, in the UK, the contract does not expire because the Landlord sells the property. The vast majority of rental agreements in the UK are Assured Shorthold Tenancies and are usualy valid initially for 6 months, they then can either be renewed for a further period or ended completely.

:) :)