½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Ciao paperopoli,

I think your question is a very good one. Whenever I get together with ½ûÂþÌìÌà friends in the UK the statement "...you see I would rather be in Italy but no way I could do the job I do in the UK there... unless I knew all the right people that is" is inevitable.

However, the majority of people moving to Italy are not going there for a more exciting career or for a higher salary (although sometimes they find just that!). Most people move to Italy to "downshift" and they don't move to city centres but smaller towns and the countryside where a bit of the idyll still remains. Of course, very often the "dream" is nothing like what really happens- but sometimes it is even better than what people would expect.

In general, it seems to me that people who are willing to leave their country behind to move to another are also people who are typically very resourceful, so they find ways to employ themselves in all sorts of ways (just have a look at our classifieds section!).

I had already worked in Italy for several years, but visiting from Switzerland where I was working at the time, before I decided to buy a home in Italy. I could never live long term in Switzerland, they have more money but the lifestyle would drive me insane.

Yes, Italy has problems, but the UK is hardly problem free. It's simply trading off one thing against another. I worry about old age in Italy, about health care and about simply being able to survive. But these worries aren't absent in the UK. As to work, I've employed myself in the UK for over fifteen years now so I'm not tied to being a wage slave, and I can work just as well from Italy as from the UK. There's this internet thing.

Ciao di nuovo!

I suppose it's true, most people go to Italy to downshift and have an alternative lifestyle.

What makes me a bit sad about this, however, is the fact that this is only possible because of the inflated house prices in the UK - people cash in from their properties, sell up and buy much bigger properties abroad, properties that local people could not afford.

Therefore it's always a relief to hear when ex-pats set up a business, at least that involves giving something back to the local community and generally helping the economy.

[QUOTE=paperopoli]Ciao di nuovo!

I suppose it's true, most people go to Italy to downshift and have an alternative lifestyle.

What makes me a bit sad about this, however, is the fact that this is only possible because of the inflated house prices in the UK - people cash in from their properties, sell up and buy much bigger properties abroad, properties that local people could not afford.

Therefore it's always a relief to hear when ex-pats set up a business, at least that involves giving something back to the local community and generally helping the economy.[/QUOTE]

It seems that there is a minor exodus of downsizers from northern Europe to southern Europe just as new workers arrive to fill their places from central and eastern Europe. The thought that this type of labour mobility was impossible in Europe was thought by many pundits to lead to the inevitable failure of the Euro.
Paperopoli, you do seem eminently more integrated in the U.K. than I am in Italy and I take my Del Boy pork-pie hat off to you. I do run a business here but I am not sure if I am help or hindrance to the local...economy!
By the way, house prices in Prato are not a give away and we have held off buying waiting to see if prices come back a bit...........a mistake?

SDOJ

[FONT=Arial]hi, paperopoli, its nice to hear from someone how feels as I do. this idealised view of Italy does not live up to reality. My mother is italian and cannot understand the appeal of living there. Saying that I would like to learn more about her culture and laungage and I plan on working in Italy for a few months just to get to know the people and maybe learn alittle about my roots. Angie[/FONT][QUOTE=paperopoli]Ciao a tutti

I'm an ½ûÂþÌìÌà living in the U.K. and I've somehow stumbled across this site. I'm very surprised that so many Brits have this '½ûÂþÌìÌà dream' - and I'm hoping that this forum will tell me why, and whether this dream ever turns into reality.

Because the fact is, that whenever I speak to friends back in Italy they certainly do not live this idyllic lifestyle promoted in the many TV programmes about relocation that we get over here. Unemployment is high, pay levels are abysmal, and ageism still persists if you are over 30 and want to get a job (and if you are female, forget it, you might get pregnant!).

So I'm looking forward to hearing people's stories - and lend a hand with the occasional language question![/QUOTE]

Hi paperopoli

Yes, you're right, there's a world of difference between the TV programmes and real life - isn't there always? I do think people have very different approaches to moving abroad and I don't have much time for those who think they can simply impose themselves on their chosen destination without trying to understand local issues, culture, language etc, and making a place for themselves. But whilst many expats might not work in Italy, they do spend (I suspect) a lot of money, and they do buy and renovate properties that ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs wouldn't even look at. And I do think it's harder to integrate into society in Italy than in the UK, on various levels. ½ûÂþÌìÌà and legislation are the 2 things that come to mind most immediately. Not that I'm complaining. Nothing I enjoy more than a good ½ûÂþÌìÌà red tape challenge!

Hi everybody

It's good to hear all your different views on this subject. I know that you Brits are after all spending money in Italy, and you rescue all those old properties that are just left to crumble! (½ûÂþÌìÌÃs think: "What: a SECOND HAND HOUSE????" :confused: )

I just wished they stopped making those TV programmes about profiting from overseas prices! And surely there must be a limit to the demand for B&Bs geared towards the UK visitor to Tuscany? ;)

All in all, I find it flattering that people love Italy so much, although I am very sceptical about the rural idyll.

Ah, anywhere can be an idyll if you're in the right state of mind! Though having spent all of last winter on my own in deepest arcadian umbria i do think it has to be a pretty steely state of mind sometimes - weeks of dense fog, frozen pipes, powercuts, gas leaks, a break-in and a broken boiler. A winter I would never be able to replicate in London (but my ½ûÂþÌìÌà vocab is so much richer now...) And yes, not like it is on TV... But that's not just Italy - real life is always grittier when you actually try living somewhere as opposed to just passing through, and it's a challenging experience for anyone whether you're the newcomer or live somewhere where the newcomers settle... :o

Ciao Paperopoli

I agree with Ronald. You question is a very good one. Ronald perhaps you could run another survey like the one you did on the where is it safest to live debate.

Many Brits are joining the exodus (to may countries and not just Italy) and seem content to leave their island sanctuary order to set up new lives abroad. There are a number of reasons. I believe we leave it all behind because we fall in love with a country and its beauty. We fall in love with the generosity and kindness of the local people, the climate, culture and culinary traditions, and we love the thought of increasing our chances of a happier and more relaxing way of Life elsewhere.

I have travelled to and worked in many places during my working life. Aviation, engineering and defence used to be my thing. First as an aviator, then (after I decided it was time for me to become more responsible and settle down) followed by a spell in senior management. I soon came to discover that being a corporate animal wasn’t for me.

Italy has always been special for me. But I am biased of course because my mother is ½ûÂþÌìÌÃ. I also enjoy the benefits of understanding both languages and cultures, having lived, studied and worked in both countries.

To sum it up…one of my clients recently told me that when she lived in the UK she always had problems with her neck. Since living in Italy…her neck problem has disappeared.

Hi Paperopoli

My father is ½ûÂþÌìÌà and left when he was in his mid teens. He has been in Britain for more than 35 years now. He has always defended Britain to the hilt and told of how he couldn't live in Italy with the sometimes chaotic lifestyle, the surly attitude of many public servants and even the weather which he now finds too warm! In the town where we live there are quite a few ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs and one, a lady called Maria is always extolling the virtues of the old country and talking about living there. My dad's attitude has always been if its so great, why are you living here?!

However, my dad is starting to become disillusioned with Britain with the yob culture which seems to be worsening, the pensions crisis which appears to be looming, the government, etc. He holidays each year in Portugal and would like to move there but perhaps he is experiencing the same emotions as Brits who holiday in Italy!

I am seriously thinking of having a go at working and living in Italy. I have been virtually every year of my life and love the country. Unlike many, I've never holidayed there, more temporarily live there with family so I don't for one minute see it through rose tinted specs... unlike a friend of mine who spent a week in Sorrento for the first time last year and is returning this year. She says she would like to live there as she can see herself lying by the pool with a glass of wine... :rolleyes: I don't know any ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs who live like that!!

I am sick of the rat race, the terrible weather, the yobs, the booze culture, politically correctness gone mad and fancy escaping and experiencing life in what is my second home, but also know there are aspects of it I wouldn't prefer and would drive me mad. But this is life, everywhere has good and bad points.

I do prefer the weather there, the culture, I prefer bars to pubs, the food, the women are quite nice too ;) the mountains and coasts. As soon as I step off the plane in Naples a feel good glow always hits me.

Quite an interesting article in Repubblica regarding life and work for a young ½ûÂþÌìÌà living in London and one in Italy

[url]http://www.repubblica.it/2005/f/sezioni/cronaca/giovalavoro/giovalavoro/giovalavoro.html[/url]

I have many reasons for loving the ½ûÂþÌìÌà experience. For me top of the list has to be the evening passeggiata. Thanks to this custom I have been able to travel to Italy as a lone parent since 1996 with my daughter who is now 14 and walk around many beautiful towns at night time. Sitting at many ice cream parlours until 11'oclock at night. I live in Bournemouth, I would not take my daughter to our town centre at that time of night, sad but true. I am too much of a coward to make a complete move to Italy but hope to spend many more years exploring Italy and enjoying all its good and bad customs. I am aware of what is bad, my cousin is married to an ½ûÂþÌìÌà and they run a mountain rifugio, we have had many laughs over various laws taxes etc. Did you know there are mushroom police in the mountains, but there goes another story.

Hi Deb

The evening passeggiata is another 'typical' ½ûÂþÌìÌà tradition that baffles me.

I have never come across it apart from in seaside resorts, where everybody is out to escape the heat of their holiday homes!

I think in non-holiday places the passeggiata is more of an early evening thing, all'ora dell'aperitivo, then people go off to dinner!

However, I really do agree with your comparison with our town centres here in the UK. Brighton is the same - full of drunk people and threatening behaviour. I don't know if more relaxed licensing laws will change this - but it could be a start. I love this country and the people, but if there is one thing that makes me despair and reach for the plane ticket is the yob culture.

We don't really have a passegiatta as such, but just before cena people gather in the Piazza del Popolo and mill around a bit. There are two garages directly opposite each other at one end of the square and their customers hang around a bit in fiercely loyal groups chatting about everything and nothing. A few people stand around outside one of the two bars at the other end of the square. They tend to drift off around dinner time then we start a process of popping in and out of each other's homes until midnight. The contadini get a lot of business deals done between dinner and midnight over a great deal of wine, some beer for special occasions and grappa when the going gets heavy.

In Pescara, I've never felt threatened at night, even when people start to fall out of the bars. It all seems good humoured by comparison with the UK. In general drunks don't go around looking for a fight, they just stumble along muttering "salve" at everyone they pass.

My uncle lives on Procida (Neapolitan island) and the passeggiata along the harbour is very popular there. I have also been involved in excellent passeggiata in Eboli, Agropoli and Paestum. Its no myth! ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs are much more likely to be doing the passeggiata with a delicious ice cream than sitting in bars.

Like all of you the yob culture in Britain is one of my biggest concerns, last month I was in Portugal and Spain and didn't see one drunken agressive teenager, yet here I regularly see large groups of pasty teenagers in regulation hoodies and caps swigging from tins of lager, in the middle of the day as well. Its getting out of control and IMO past the point of no return.

Gillio

I think you might be right about the point of no return. It's very sad indeed.

My uncle lives in Padua's town centre and said that things are getting worse in Italy too. There are a lot of drunk young people at all hours, and he's even contemplating moving back to the countryside. I have a very sneaky feeling that Italy (and the rest of Mediterranean Europe) are slowly but surely catching up with the UK.

Let's hope it never gets as bad as here though.

Paperopoli

Thats a shame, like you, I hope it never gets like it is here.

Last time I was in italy (Nov 2003) I spent my last night in Naples City Centre and before going for a fantastic meal at the Cavour Restuarant we decided to go for a walk round the dark back street slums out of curiosity.

Despite being dressed up for a night out and it being dark, we never once felt threatened by any of the scugnizzi. They went about their business as did we. There was no yobbish behaviour, no threats, no taunting. If however, we had done the same around the back streets of London, Birmingham, Manchester or just about anywhere here I think it would have been very different.

We even walked through an area habited by North African immigrants and again, no problem.