½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Don't like it myself and have a plan to eventually fence my land completely. That's the only way to keep them out and give the little birds some protection.

I have to ask.......was the major clay pigeon shooting venue there when you bought your house? If so, it could be seen as churlish to complain about it now(!)

As for shooting, it seems as ½ûÂþÌìÌà as pasta, Fiat 500s & gesticulations(!) so if I were you, I'd buy some camoflage, get your wellies on & learn to love it!

much as in england where we used to live there are rules that will help.... all churches will have those dinging bits in the middle removed.... with genetic engineering cokerels can be made to crow silently ... and all families who have lived in area for several generations doing what they have done for hundreds of years will have their right...or somtimes left index finger removed so that triggers can not be pulled.....

seriously... mr and mrs tuscan are right.... i can sympathise.... but didnt you know about it .... and i guess thats the problem when you buy here.... local knowledge..... its all very pretty when you visit with the sun shining...and olive groves do look pretty.... but country living is not..... and never has been....

i happen to accept that i think differently and have lived differently... but i accept what they do as what they have done all their lives...its based on a time when people used to eat and drink what they either grew or caught.... and i respect that way and that knowledge they have..... if i had hunting land i would not fence it.....to keep the hunters out... i would let them on to say shoot a couple of weekends...not because i support hunting as such... but it has been their right and in their tradition for a long time.... and i can only respect that... a balanced approach which might help you to get on a bit better with your neighbours ...

i have been slated in the past for mentioning problems like arsenic and dumping in certain areas of italy... common knowledge if you happen to live here.... certain areas where it would be wise not to buy houses....and everyone local would know this... because they have been built where every year you will get mud slides..... all of these facts are there for all of us to find in newspapers and news programs.... they do have a watch dog equivalent here.... but its hard when you are just popping down for a week...

i am sorry about your clay shoot.... they used to run one near us on one day a year on one of those big estates owned by some relative of the queen... it did sound like a war going on....

Thanks for a ll the comments. Yes we knew about the masseria that had clay shoots, the English agent for the estate agents visited the place several times to make sure there was no noise, the owner assured us there was no noise. Everyone said "there is no noise". Ha ha. When we mentioned it to our ½ûÂþÌìÌà estate agent this time he just looks at the sky as if it is nothing. But when we visited the place there was only the odd pop and bang. I don't expect anything to happen about it, it is a local pastime and tourist attraction and we definitely do not want to cause any bother with the neighbours or anyone. However, I am hoping that there will be an EU directive or something in the future about clay pigeon noise or a new invention that makes it quieter...

As for hunting, the same goes really. I am used to living in a rural area, and have done so all my adult life, so am used to country ways. I am a little shocked by the smallness of the prey and how much food value can there be in tiny birds? But again, we don't comment to neighbours - just to Italy Mag!
There is, however, moves afoot to do something about hunting of endangered species of birds by ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs. There is prog about it on Radio 4 this evening for you who are in UK, "Crossing Continents" at 8.10pm.

You might be interested in this site

[url]http://www.lipu-uk.org/[/url]

Its the UK site of the ½ûÂþÌìÌà Society for the Protection of Birds

[QUOTE=kathy]Yes we knew about the masseria that had clay shoots, the English agent for the estate agents visited the place several times to make sure there was no noise, the owner assured us there was no noise. Everyone said "there is no noise".[/QUOTE]

Kathy,

Quite frankly, I have never heard of a quiet "Clay Shoot", the last time I checked, shotguns do make a lot of noise, as you know now. My suggestion is, when you are at home, make some noise of your own (play loud music), drowning out world war three. I hope this helps.

yes I sometimes play music...as it's noisiest at weekends, the best thing is to do the shopping on saturday go for a drive and then eat out. Same for Sunday....a couple of hours is almost bearable. I'm sure some of the villas up on the hill must be fairly annoyed by the booming. And shooting will never be an attraction for me. But nothing is purrfect, and I didn't expect a country idyll. Being there is a good experience on the whole.

I am very interested in the site on birds. I will think about supporting their efforts. :)

There were a couple of times last november when shot fell out of the sky around me........I don't like it much.

There is also a clay pigeon club just up the road from me, however, as they are Marchigiani, they are quite quiet, and respectful ;) , and they built it on the other side of a big hill, errm, facing away from my house, many years ago, I visited when a shoot was taking place, and, fortunately the noise was not terribly intrusive, as far as the hunters are involved, make friends with them, they can be very useful when the fox slides through your pretty olive groves and rips your chickens, cats, small dogs etc., to bits, they might however, develop the habit of leaving you small, feathery presents though if you get too friendly :eek:

Some of the hunters are already neighbours and friends. I would like to be able to walk around during the weekend, but it is too risky. I am not a fan of hunting wherever it is, unless it's for warding off starvation. I prefer to keep small birds in one piece. I wouldn't keep chickens and I have nothing against foxes. It is probably that we won't spend much time in Italy during the winter so will miss alot of the season.

It is a very noisy clay shoot because of its situation, and we are quite a way from the masseria. However, as I said in my first post, I have been reading about laser clays so maybe they will catch on :rolleyes:

I'd love to see the faces of the locals at the market stalls selling hunting equipment when they set eyes on laser guns!

He he he!

I'd be easier to sell ice cream to eskimos!

tuscan...

i think you are too unkind.... being from bucks you most probably even suppot fox hunting .... what would the locals say about all that hoo haa

but a valid point.... lasers and italian hunters do not really in my mind seem to mix... mainly because hunting here is not a rich man sport.... its a local country thing..... many farmers growing crops will try and get rid of the wild boar by culling them... otherwise we might all well be in danger.... on your own land you can post signs at all entrances forbidding shooting/hunting... which will keep them out...

as for little birds... i agree... i always used to hate that thing where they give you these littler chickens... all bone and no meat...so a sparrow might be even worse.... but i do not think that there is much chance of ayone hunting these with guns.... they use nets... and this is being made illegal..

as for your choice to either farm or not chickens...it is hardly relevant kathy... your neighbours will.... and ofeten the older generation here live off the land still... their pensions going into the bank for their children or grand children.... its an important part of italian rural life and when they dissapear you will most probably fgind massive factory farm chicken units built next door.... so let them continue with their shoots...

in a sense it seems strange you moved to a rural part of italy... becuse that is what rural italy is all about... my neighbours having just handed me a rabbit to cook would not aprecaite your fox sentiment and i would not dream to tell them otherwise ... they are vermin ... to them at least... do you have mice and rats at home in england...l

You still have rabbits in Abruzzo ???????????????? throwing the Lurchers in the back of the Panda now...
Don't worry, the back is padded.

george

not sure the lurchers will fit in the rabbit hutches.... rabbits being apart form pigs one of the most efficient weight gaining animals to farm.... apart from the breading propensity... which hopefully we will not have to get into.... but they are obviously of the catholic persuasion .... is that papist ... sorry... we are having a referendum here at the weekend and the pope is against everything ... apart from natural breeding ... obviously the italians are not listening because they have the lowest birth rate in europe... apart from the rabbits that is... anyway bring the lurchers ... as long as they are laser ones .... will ask my son if the play station does clay pigeon shoots....could be the answer....apart from the initial outlay will save a lot on cartridge cost....and keep you out of wind and rain.... or hot sun

John, Ohhhh NO, farming poor little fluffy bunny wabbits, it must be true what they've been telling me about those Abruzziani (?)
Anyway, they'd fit in the hutches eventually :D
PS, Is the Pope a papist then ?!?!?!?!... and, the extra one .

:p Ummm, well, I live in the countryside here remotest Wales have done so for over 35 years...puppy farms, fox hunting and animal neglect all part of the rich tapestry of rural life. I have no intention of interfering with the neighbours' hobbies. They accept us, I accept them. I don't eat animals, I am vegan (ha ha, what will I get said now?)-they find this fascinating and give me pizza without cheese on, and we do things for them too like offering accommodation in England for their children to come and work. It is a 2 way thing. We get on very well. However, the conservation of small birds is a European question, not just for the local farmer. Times change, and what has always been done in the past sometimes has to change as well.

I love it in Italia, it's a great place, but don't have to like everything. Anyway, don't want to get anyone too worked up....nice and sunny here today in Galles. :)

Well done Kathy.
Your diet is your own concern, your neighbours seem to be looking after you properly.
Have never farmed a puppy in my life, although I have rescued and rehabilitated many. Have never neglected any animal in my care (Does making kids go without ice cream count? :confused: ). Have hunted fox, hare rabbit, deer single handed, and, don't like guns.
Sunny here too, although, spectacular storm last night.

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]John, Ohhhh NO, farming poor little fluffy bunny wabbits, it must be true what they've been telling me about those Abruzziani (?)
Anyway, they'd fit in the hutches eventually :D
PS, Is the Pope a papist then ?!?!?!?!... and, the extra one .[/QUOTE]

Abruzzese.

Most of our neighbours have banned hunting on their property. TBH I'm not bothered I was broght up near a grouse moor and learned to shoot at an early age. I tend to agree with what seems to be the majority of ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs that the British tend to be a bit wet about guns. It may be years of our politicians telling them that anyone with a gun is a psychopath, or perhaps just a deep fear of hearing something go "bang".

Other than pheasant and partridge there's not much to hunt in the hills aroudn our farm. I've seen two hare which I wouldn't shoot anyway and there are no rabbits at all, in contrast to the UK where we are knee deep in them. Our Abruzzese neighbours have said they will pay good money for fresh Hampshire wild rabbit, but I can't work out the logistics of shooting them in the UK and getting them to Italy fast enough.

You simply post notices around your boundary "Divieto di Caccia", white on a red background, the majority of hunters will obey them apparently. (I daresay there will be some obscure tax related to putting up the signs) I haven't been able to get a definitive statement about the "ownership" of land, it seems that so long as no harm is done, people are fairly free to roam, hunters will usually be restricted to your locality too, they seem to have district boundaries.

[QUOTE=will]"Most of our neighbours have banned hunting on their property"

Banning hunting....blimey can you do that? How not to assimilate in one fell swoop....! What actually is the law in italy on hunting regarding others land....does it make a difference if its agricultual or urban for instance?[/QUOTE]

As George has said, you put up red on white notices all around your land, *but* you have to pay a tax to make them legal. We have a local bloke "Bruno" who takes care of it all including putting up the notices.

The law prohibits hunting within a particular distance of houses (can't remember what the distance is), but I've found shotgun cartridges just a few feet away from my back door. As to where they can go, just about everywhere it seems. It does hack me off a little, because I maintain a small wood at one end of our land (for firewood and building timber) it also provides cover for game which means that come autumn hundreds of romans on holiday are wandering around my land. Some of them don't stick to huning but also try to dig up truffles and take wild asparagus. That's my dinner they are stealing.

Fortunately my neighbour has big Abruzzese sheep dogs and they tend to command at least some respect.

Maybe Puglia is changing faster than other more remote parts of Italy. I have seen no young people (under45!) looking for wild asparagus, although quite a few older people are seen with bunches of it and there are people searching for fungi in the autumn. I don't mind if they potter about...our neighbour farms our olives anyway and gives us some oil for cooking. All the small farmers are retiring and selling up to foreigners or Milanese. I haven't met a young farmer either, they all have town jobs. The remaining older people all have other jobs in the towns too, and farm olives and keep bunnies etc part-time. The remaining farms, the large masserias, are mostly hotels and have diversified into other things, alongside olive farming, veg growing and this is why there is the clay pigeon shoot.
I wouldn't really want to put up notices but I have found shot [I]inside[/I] our house. There don't seem to be any women about during the hunting....not here anyway. Could it be a boy thing?? :eek:

i think abruzzo is much as you describe puglia... slightly depressing really...luckily we still live at a time when a generation that struggled thru things can still show us a bit about rural life.... that is one of the reasons i believe non locals are welcome in these small rural communities.... a lot of us seem to have a genuine interest and respect for the dying way of that rural life....

in a sense and i have said i sympathise with your clay shoot dilemna.... i would hate to have it near me.... i also have sympathy with your anti hunt opinions... very little need nowadays for shooting your own food... but as you rightly mentioned boys will be boys... they have a fondness for camouflage trousers and huge cartridge belts.... and as for guns... well they are almost if not more symbolic than red ferraris

the little bird problem you mentioned is still though not a shooting one...its a problem with what they call netting and is aillegal here... however up nth there are certain restaurants where you can sill eat these small song birds... and people pay a lot of money to do so.... they had a documentary here on it a while back... the forest police try to stop it but rural italy is a big place and its difficult....

as a balance here in abruzzo you will find more national park than most places in europe.. large areas...very large of protected environment both for animals and plants.... you will also find away from the coastal plains areas of farms where cornflower still grows in the hedgerow and poppies in the fileds... you can still go and pick wild chicory or almost any other plant which is edible without fear of contamination.... all day and half the night you will hear birds etc making all their different noises... italy in these poorer rural areas remains a wild life haven....

it is against the laws here to harm either wild plant life by picking the flowers... or digging it up from hedgerows as much as hurting wild animals... unless under licence... back to the hunters... you will still see people kill a snake... i often suspect this is a catholic thing... devil and serpent talk ... i can see no other reason for it... but again it is against the law...

there is a green environmental organisation here [url]www.legambiente.com[/url] which supports environmental concerns....

i have posted on subjects of concern to them before.... in parts to do with the crime syndicate control of toxic industrial waste disposal.... puglia i am afraid being one of their favorite dumping grounds...

in terms of small birds killed by hunting or even netting they could surpass that figure millions of times over... as whole tracts of land and water have been made virtually uninhabitable to any life at all including humans...

which in a sense brings me back to maybe what you might consider my less than sympathetic previous replies to your original thoughts... i seriously believe that although hunting is an evident and noisy problem for you and some others if concern over your own health and that of other animal life is the real issue there are much bigger problems which are kept nicely hidden and quite and are not so self evident... these would concern me more than all the hunting in italy... and there affect is far mor hazadrous and widespread

;) Thanks for all the comments. I will look at the web link. It's chiefly the noise and proximity re the clays/hunting. I don't want to take them on personally. It's a beautiful place,there are wonderful flower meadows, that don't exist in the UK any more. but most countries are messing up somewhere..

In the next village along the ridge of hills, we have a German couple who object loudly and persistently to hunting. However they seem to be too mean to pay their taxes and put up the anti-hunting notices. Their solution is to take very loud radios into the garden and to make hellish noise whenever there is a hunt in the area.

I can't recommend this as a course of action. It just seems designed to make everyone annoyed.

I agree the noise can be irritating especially if you originated from a town, however hunting in rural Italy is an intrinsic part of an ½ûÂþÌìÌà childs up bringing. For the most part the prey is shot for the pot, and some solice can be gained from this.

Clay shoots are a good way to get to know people, they have an active social agenda and to my mind if you can't beat them, join them.

Regards Old Bob