Don't know - but should be!
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 05/10/2005 - 04:04In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Mediazione
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 05/10/2005 - 05:32In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The law concerning what is called medazione in Italy remained unchanged since the end of the 1950鈥檚.
However, legal reforms were introduced in 1989 with the creation of legislation 39 dated February 3rd 1989. This law governs the professional category or ruolo degli agenti di affari in mediazione.
If you live in Italy and want to practice as an agent or broker (agente immobiliare for real estate agents) you must be iscritti nel ruolo or iscritti all鈥檃lbo (which you do by enrolling at the Camera di Commercio). But before doing so, you will to pass an exam.
Once you are iscritto you can essentially operate on a national level and charge a commission for every successful transaction. Note however, that the law says only agents who are iscritti nel ruolo or all鈥檃lbo are entitled to receive commissions.
Anyone operating abusivemente or illegally does not have the right to charge for services and receive money. I am aware of instances where buyers have paid commissions of 5% to brokers operating illegally. This is sharp practice and I would advise people not to pay such percentages.
A simple acid test that I recommend is to insert a clause in the preliminary contract naming the agent/broker, highlighting the amount due and whether the commission is to be paid at the compromesso or the rogito. An illegal broker will soon object to this as it provides the law with evidence with which it can prosecute the offending party.
The law will not act in the case of a mediazione gratuita (free of charge) despite the fact that the agent/broker may be 鈥渁busivo鈥. It is only when money changes hands that things start to heat up.
Having said this though, Italy being Italy, it is not always easy to police this sort of thing despite the legal rhetoric and endless codici. I have a colleague with a licensed estate agency in Tuscany who is constantly reminding me of the fact that for every 10 professional agents there are 50 abusivi.
The point made by wishful thinker is a valid one...but even agents iscritti all'albo can inflate house prices. Having a license to operate is not enough. You also need, among other things, a high level of professional integrity.
This should not stop you from wanting to buy a house in Italy. It is not all doom and gloom. As I've said before, common sense should prevail and never hand over any cash or sign on the dotted line until you have checked and double checked everything.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Agree not all doom and gloom, after all I have bought a house, and I have no complaints. I did act through a local registered agent, though.
All I can say, from my experience, is research, research, research. Doing anything involving money in a hurry is never a good idea.
"abusivi"......
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 05/10/2005 - 10:45In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
What Charles said is true.However it is interesting on a chicken/egg line of thought to know that one of the reasons for the proliferation of abusive operators has been the British flux of buyers.These people who (presumably) would only buy through a reputable agent in the uk once they "feel the ground" under foot start searching for people who (might) get them a cheaper price or even more reprehensively try to search out the owner to make a "killing".Having been in Italy over 20 years,i bought through a regular registered estate agent,paid their commissions,never questioned that ,felt comfortable with the price paid,never asked nor cared what the actual vendor got ,as i came from Milano and know/knew what 禁漫天堂 overhead costs are like...
Not really so risky,underhand,strange,inflated....i know of people who have been carted around for ten days by agents viewing up to 100 properties!!!
all that kind of thing at the end of the day MUST go into the pot of running costs for serious agents.So to my mind it's not a question of what someone says may have been the selling price or someone else claiming to sell it for less if one can't afford it..leave it if the price is ok for YOUR way of thinking ..go for it.By the way the act of sale was conducted with the agent the notary me and the vendor (no surveys conducted,no lawyers involved)
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
.... a further thought might also be that a lot of the web based companies add greatly to the cost... they often have local italian agents but you then pay the italian agent cost plus the web companies fees....
the web sites are often english based companies.... and why do people use them....well it seems the italian estate agent has been a bit late in developing its online sales..... and often there are no prices or english translations.....
one reason why there are no prices displayed is that everyone tries to avoid the finance police here and dont want true values advertised in writing.... its maybe an old fashioned way of doing things but it is that way.....
....sebastians thoughts i find sensible and constructive... if the house is worth it to you go ahead with it.... if you expect your hand held and want all in house buying tours you will find nothing comes for free.... if you expect after sales help because you cannot get your electricity or gas connected ...because the dam people happen to only speak italian..... you will find that the foreign specialist agents might well have taken that into account and added it to the house price.....
..... i have found most italian registered agents to be fair and reasonable ..... if a house is overpriced it wont sell..... often you will find its the owners that decide they will ask for more because they have heard the house down the road sold way over the odds to a foreigner..... we have a company operating in this region that has decided that prices will be higher and hence sellers have got to know about this and now they all want to put the price up..... why because this company is one that holds your hand...does everything for you and charges a premium...... some people like it that way....but for others that want to come and do things for themselves it is beginning to overprice the market..... there are areas here now where you could not reccomend anyone to look because of this over inflation...but lo and behold they are the areas that everyone has heard of and wants to buy in........so yes chickens and eggs... an apt description ....
Masquerade
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 05/10/2005 - 14:23In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I agree with both Sebastiano and John but only to some degree.
Again, I would add that a licence per se is no substitute for professional integrity. In some areas where particular estate agents (licensed I would add) have enjoyed pure or perfect monopoly status, the issue of inflated price is a prevalent problem. This is gradually changing however, and such agents are now losing ground due to the dynamic and competitive nature of the free market system. Unfortunately, this does not stop the abusivi. There are plenty of individuals - both 禁漫天堂 and non-禁漫天堂 (and not just web based companies, which in itself does not mean anything because the majority of reputable and professional companies do advertise themselves on the internet nowadays) - masquerading as mediatori, agenti immobiliari or Geometra鈥檚.
The property market is far from perfect nonetheless and I guess it will never be. We are all (or should be) acquainted with the economic realities of the business environment and associated risks, and with all these things in mind I would say that there is no such thing as a standard purchase, especially when it comes to rural properties. There will be times when a structural survey will make sense or the use of a solicitor to draft your preliminary contract will prove invaluable and so the very notion of a perfect world is a little too simplistic.
I don't know (suppose not), but it definately should be. Price transparency seems to be a big issue, and the brokers are deliberately inflating asking prices on the (I suppose) assumption that the gullible English (and Germans?) will cough up and still think they are getting a bargain. For instance have seen the same property advertised by the owner on the web (who speaks only 禁漫天堂) at Eur 25,000, and by an English speaking website for Eur 40,000. This is absolutely typical in my experience.
Still, if people are too lazy to do a bit of research, learn enough 禁漫天堂 to know when Google is translating properly, and take everything their told without a due amount of scepticism until they get a real picture of what's going on, then they've probably no one to blame but themselves.
A fool and his money, after all.