Thanks for that Valentina
Submitted by Postmac on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 13:25In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I was always told that generally an easy way to remember is:-a. If the verb involves coming or going action then use essere.b. If the verb requires an object then use avere. e.g. I ate (something), I bought (something) etc.c. If the verb doesn't require an object then use essere e.g. I went, I arrived, I left etc.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Yes, Postmac, I was going to say the same thing. Many of us haven't ever even really been taught English grammar so don't always know what transative/intransative verbs are - I didn't really go into some of the finer details until A-level or even degree level grammar. As a general rule, I was taught that verbs of movement take 'essere'. There are relatively few verbs that take essere, so I found it easier to remember those. They're pretty much the same verbs that take etre in French (arrivare, partire, essere, andare, cadere, uscire, venire, scendere, entrare, diventare, crescere, morire, nascere...). Obviously this is not a comprehensive list but it's a start! And obviously, it's not as simple as that, as Valentina has indicated, as there are reflexive verbs, and some verbs can be transitive and intransitive... But that's something that comes with time and practice and by listening to natives (thanks Valentina) doing it properly!
Lack of knowledge of English grammar
Submitted by Flyingpigs on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 04:12I agree that most of us haven't been taught English grammar. I am in my fifties, went to grammar school but only picked up the basics of English grammar through learning Latin. My teacher said that before she could teach she had to first teach us all the grammar of our own language!
animate vs inanimate subject
Submitted by Valentina+c on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 04:44another suggestion to choose the right auxiliary..the use of auxiliary depends on the kind of subject. (1) If the subject is animate (like people, animals or animated things) then we use the "avere" auxiliary (but there are exceptions too)(2) If the subject is inanimate it is more likely to be used intransitively, then with the "essere" auxiliary.es. (1) Maria gave a present to her sister / Maria ha dato un regalo a sua sorella.es. (2) The paper flied away / La carta è volata via.Note that in the translation I use present perfect (passato prossimo) instead of the past simple (passato remoto) es. La carta volò via. Passato remoto is used more in literature than in the spoken language.
Very helpful!
Submitted by lisiamc on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 08:51In reply to animate vs inanimate subject by Valentina+c
two-way lesson?
Submitted by Fox on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 12:22In reply to animate vs inanimate subject by Valentina+c
Hi Valentina, I hope you don't mind my correcting you but I seem to remember that you were happy to make this a two-way thing, so we can learn the intricacies of while you finetune your English... I expect it was just a slip of the finger but the past tense of 'to fly' is 'flew', not 'flied'! (although of course, we all knew exactly what you meant so there would be no red pen).
English grammar
Submitted by Valentina+c on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 05:04In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
On the contrary, the first thing s are taught is grammar. Maybe because School tries to help speaking-dialect kids learning the correct way to speak .Anyway I know a lot of people who still cannot recognize transitive verbs and a lot of other things..I still remember of the mistakes I made at elementary schools. A red pen was used to correct big mistakes while the blue one was used to sign little mistakes.Though this could sound a little odd to UK citizens. Maybe blue/red pen is an old (bad) souvenir:Do you agree with it? ps: scusate, didn't find the English version, but the content may sound familiar to you.
Political correctness gone mad!
Submitted by Fox on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 06:56In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
That says it all, really! British teachers aren't allowed to correct things any more anyway - as long as the student has managed to get his/her point across, it doesn't matter how littered with grammatical errors and spelling mistakes it is... don't start me on this!I heard my 4-year-old daughter's nursery teacher telling her she's not allowed to say 'win' today. I rest my case.
Grande Valentina...
Submitted by Angelo on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 09:55In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
no red pen..thank u very much!
Submitted by Valentina+c on Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:06In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks to be so kind! you must be laughing in your mind, since "flied" has reference to baseball, as it is well explained here:So the alternative to the above phrase would be:The ball flied / La palla è volata via :)You must admit that in a way it isn't a big error so the red pen may be too "aggressive"...In we say "Mi sono salvata in calcio d'angolo" - when you try and succeed to show that you were (less or more) right.. ...In reality, it was a lapsus! I perfectly know the right paradigma is "to fly - flew - flown", but I often write flied..:p maybe because it's similar to "flies" and my mind associates the two words.