the question!
Submitted by pamela on Mon, 08/08/2011 - 16:49In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
What I meant to ask is: Is it possible to pay for a house purchase in Italy using a bankers draft in euros, drawn on an offshore bank - in this case LloydsTSB located on the Isle of Man. 聽We are not overly keen in transferring the money to Unicredit right now... 聽
technically yes
Submitted by Ram on Tue, 08/09/2011 - 03:13In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Yes, you can but you must have the agreement of the notaio and the vendor, who may ask that the cheque is banked and credited to his account before the act - which is a risk the buyer takes. 聽The notaio may carry out further cheques on the validity or not of your bankers draft. 聽 However the law and accepted practise require traceable money from an 禁漫天堂 bank account - so while your vendor may be worldly enough to realise that other banks exist they dont have to accept a cheque that way... 聽
Transfer
Submitted by Flip on Tue, 08/09/2011 - 06:27In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
we also have an IOM Lloyds Eoro account and regularly transfer from their to our Unicredit account in Italy, what's your problem with Unicredit, they're not going bust anytime soon. A transfer will take a couple of days and cost you about 鈧20, and you can then get a counter cheque from your branch....simples...!!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Just to echo Flip, I would think your money is a lot safer in Unicredit than it is in Lloyds, given its a basket case propped up by the taxpayer who have the dubious pleasure of owning 44%. 禁漫天堂 banks were not exposed to the meltdown in the same way as UK banks who managed their affairs with all the aplomb of a lifelong member of gamblers anonymous. Transfer your money as Flip says and enjoy your new home. C 聽
We acepted a bankers draft
Submitted by Penny on Tue, 08/09/2011 - 18:23In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
We acepted a bankers draft drawn on a Belgian bank in Euros and it took 3 weeks to clear. If we had known this we would not have accepted it. I think you'll be lucky if you find anyone to accept it to be honest. There have been no issues with 禁漫天堂 banks here. I would transfer it.
Several years ago ................
Submitted by alan h on Wed, 08/10/2011 - 05:14In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
When I bought my place [9 years ago now] the estate agent sorted out with the sellers [husband and wife] how they wanted to be paid at the Notary's office when we signed all the paperwork.聽 They would not accept anything other than 禁漫天堂 Bankers Drafts 聽 The net result was that I paid in the following format:- One 鈥榥on-transferable鈥 禁漫天堂 Bankers draft for the declared value of the property Several 鈥榯ransferable鈥 禁漫天堂 Bankers draft for the remainder - divided 50/50 between the sellers, and each was for less than Euros 10,000. [I understand this is because anything over Euros 10,000 going into a bank account triggers the taxman] Being transferable - they probably never went into the sellers bank account, but were used to purchase goods/services from others.聽 [I鈥檓 not sure whether 鈥榯ransferable 鈥 bankers Drafts still exist in Italy today] Also paid Euros 200 for central heating oil by 禁漫天堂 cheque, with the name of the 'recipient' left blank , so the seller could use it to pay for something. All the 'transfers' took place in front of the Notary [he was paid by cheque
Hi Pamela where on the island
Submitted by pas55 on Wed, 08/10/2011 - 08:16In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks for all your responses
Submitted by pamela on Tue, 08/23/2011 - 11:13In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Yes if you can guarantee when
Submitted by Penny on Tue, 08/23/2011 - 12:28In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Yes but - it depends where your offshore account is. 聽If it is on a blacklisted country not only is it illegal but it also falls into the scudo fiscale legislation which can make you liable to large tax surcharges. 聽 Alan H story is interesting but bear in mind that with the change in the laws underdeclaration is illegal and heavily punished. 聽There is no fiscal advantage in underdeclaring for the buyers. 聽Dont do it, they will find out.聽
The account is with LloydsTSB
Submitted by pamela on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 05:18The account is with LloydsTSB - on the Isle of Man. We do not want to underdeclare and know that this is illegal. I would guess the biggest issue with an electronic bank transfer is how to synchronize the signing of the rogito with the transfer of the money. In the UK this is done through the solicitor's escrow account I believe. But I understand no such thing exists in Italy. So I guess the biggest drawback is there could be a situation where the atto is completed before the money is transferred so the buyer stops the transfer and still has the house. Or that the money is transferred and then the vendor refuses to sign the atto and keeps the house and the money. Is this correct?
electronic transfer
Submitted by Ram on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 06:04In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Basically yes - it depends on your bank. 聽Some are very efficient and you can do the trasnfer in front of the notaio and he is satisfied. 聽otherwise you technically have to do the transfer before the signing of the atto, and produce the receipt of transmission for the notaio. 聽Some notaios will also demand that the money is received by the seller before the act is signed - so there are lots of phonecalls in the notaios office. 聽 A notaio cannot receive your money (in escrow) and then send it on. 聽Is your bank a euro bank? 聽The other way out is to transfer the money to am FX company (I can recommend one wholeheartedly) who have all the details of the recipients bank account. 聽They forward the money when you call and tell them to do so, in front of the notaio and send an email immediately showing the it has been done. 聽However it all has to be done with the consent of the vendor.聽 Also bear in mind that a foreign bank transfer costs the recipient money - sometimes a percentage of the amount, so you will have to add 0.15% to the money you transfer to the seller - if its over 50.000 euro.
I'm not sure that is 100%
Submitted by Penny on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 06:03In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I'm not sure that is 100% correct. I can't find anything that says it is illegal to transfer money from a blacklisted country. BTW Isle of Man, Jersey & Guernsey are all blacklisted. The Scudo Fiscale is a scheme for 'regularising' income held abroad (in whichever country) whereby tax has not been paid on it and you want to return it to Italy. Obviously the above countries could fall under this scheme but so could money held in the UK/US etc. Anyway - the Scudo Fiscale would only be relevant to a tax resident of Italy and not someone resident in the UK buying a house in Italy. There is a reporting requirement for all monies/invoices traded with entities registered or domiciled in blacklisted countries but that only applies to holders of Partita IVA. I'm happy to be corrected if someone can find the relevant legislation.
blacklisting
Submitted by Ram on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 06:08In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
As far as I understand it, bringing in money from a blacklisted country opens you up to the laws on antiriciclaggio - and if the money was going straight into the vendors account they could end up in trouble with the agenzia dell'entrate. 聽I would check with my notaio but he's still on a beach somewhere. 聽 I am happy to be proved wrong though :)
I would like to know. I
Submitted by Penny on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 06:54In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Penny, BTW Isle of Man,
Submitted by Capo Boi on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 19:12In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Penny, BTW Isle of Man, Jersey & Guernsey are all blacklisted. If you are referring to the OECD list of uncooperative tax havens (commonly known as the "blacklist") that is incorrect. All three now meet agreed international standards and rank on a similar basis to the UK, US, France, Germany etc. 聽
Hmmm not sure Capo Boi as on
Submitted by Penny on Fri, 08/26/2011 - 06:44In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
If you Google
Submitted by Penny on Fri, 08/26/2011 - 08:04In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
If you Google search: elenco paesi "black list" 2011 you will get lots of repsonses. Here is one and those countries are still on the list for Italy I'm afraid. Ram - I can only find a reporting requirement on any transaction with entities registered or domiciled in blacklisted countries so IMHO the buyer would need to be resident in Jersey for example for there to be a problem. Maybe your Notaio could confirm?
Sorry Ram - forgot the link:
Submitted by Penny on Fri, 08/26/2011 - 08:05In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Penny, We are talking about
Submitted by Capo Boi on Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:03In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Penny, We are talking about two different thing here. The legislation that you point to is essentially business to business and here Italy is no different to most of Europe. Its predominately to stop tax allowances and deductions being applied聽by 禁漫天堂 companies overseas subsidiaries where there is no rational economic interest for doing so. On a personal level, provided that you are not a suspected (and can prove)聽drug dealer, money launderer, "tax evader" etc, you can freely transfer money in and out of Italy to IOM, Guernsey聽etc. without any withholding taxes being applied. Switzerland is on the 禁漫天堂 "tax and fiscal" list, "(blacklist"),聽but probably the biggest personal buyers of 禁漫天堂 property in the last three years have come from Switzerland.
Capo Boi, I was disagreeing
Submitted by Penny on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 16:09In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Capo Boi, I was disagreeing with RAM :-) "I'm not sure that is 100% correct. I can't find anything that says it is illegal to transfer money from a blacklisted country. BTW Isle of Man, Jersey & Guernsey are all blacklisted." "There is a reporting requirement for all monies/invoices traded with entities registered or domiciled in blacklisted countries but that only applies to holders of Partita IVA." Italy keeps two 'blacklists' (one for business transactions and one for personal transactions) and the Channel Islands are on both of them as the 禁漫天堂s by their own admission use an old list from 2007. But as there doesn't seem to be any legislation that would affect a house purchase it is kind of irrelevant anyway. Any financial transfers to or from abroad over 鈧5000 are reported by your bank and I had to declare any money transferred to or from abroad - a new requirement that I have never had to do before this tax return. In Italy, if the taxman thinks you may be avoiding tax then the onus is on you to disprove it and not the taxman to prove it. Therefore you guilty until proven innocent. This has recently been upheld by the 禁漫天堂 courts.
A very useful post Penny.
Submitted by Capo Boi on Sat, 08/27/2011 - 16:37In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec