Looking for advice about boilers - I

05/31/2016 - 15:03

Looking for advice about boilers - I don't think I understand the main types!We have a house on three floors in Italy. Every time we visit (at the moment only a few weeks a year as we're working still) we have problems with starting the boiler. It has finally broken this time. Can anyone advise on an appropriate boiler which is economical and reliable? The plumber said a mono function with a tank and another person said combination. We have radiators for heating. I don't really understand the significance of mono function. Can we still get heating as well as hot water? We also don't know where to put an ugly big tank. We just don't know but want to avoid an expensive mistake. We're trying to re-instate 3 bathrooms and want the hot water to reach the top floor with sufficient pressure for a shower. Most of the time it'll be used by us (family of 4 max) but I want to allow for a group of our daughters' friends too on occasion. Thanks for your help

Topic

Property

Location

Parma Province

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A boiler with a tank gives you a reserve of hot water, whereas a condenser boiler is instant hot water, It depends where it is - if it is inside and must remain inside then you can only have a boiler with a tank under the new laws, As too pressure thats a different matter, you will need a pump probably to get decent pressure, but that will mean pushing the water through the boiler quicker which results in cooler water. I dont think there is an economical answer - for what you want heating and water on 3 floors you will have to get a decent sized boiler which will cost a fair bit.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. You've raised another concern now - the idea of a law saying where it must go! It is currently in the downstairs bathroom. Is there a law that says inside or outside and is there a law stating the boiler requires a tank? Thank you for your help because I am getting more and more confused and unsure how to proceed. I've been reading that the tank has to be above the boiler but we have no loft and the more changes I make, such as tank, hot water cylinder and even pump, the more it is going to cost and if after all of that it still breaks down every time we come it is a real drain on the finances. I'm now wondering if I can just get a 'beefier' combi boiler e.g. 33kW and if that will provide heating and water to all 3 floors?Thanks again.

In our area they tend to put combi boilers on the outside (guess by law) and they are enclosed in a second cover. However our friends do have one in their store room downstairs, but that may have been before the law said they had to be outside (which I find strange). I think the cost of various options would be little difference as the installation cost of different options will not be a great deal. I agree with Modi that it will not be cheap. Saying that we were quoted around €2,500 for a solar DHW option (not heating) a year or two back, which we thought was not too bad. Still it was never going to pay back for 10-15 years, so we did not take it up.

Hi, Thanks for your response. As per my reply above, I don't know anything about any laws? Neither do I know about or have currently a second cover! Currently our combi Beretta 24kW boiler is in the downstairs bathroom. Yikes that seems expensive though I don't have a choice but to do something as it is miserable and cold otherwise and even stops me wanting to visit :( All I know is that possibly because we don't use the boiler regularly it keeps blocking and now won't work at all. �� is a problem when things get complicated like this but I just want the cheapest and most effective solution to get heating and water of sufficient pressure to all three floors every time I go. No magic answer I guess but in your opinion can I manage without the added problems of relocating outside and also avoid having a tank?Thanks again.

Well I guess from what you have said that you want the simplest solution, which I would guess is a replacement combi boiler. A quick look at Leroy Merlin (not the cheapest) their biggest boiler is 34kw at a cost of €800. Especially if you are not on town gas, I would suggest you might want to look at other options such as air source heating combined with other DHW solutions, particularly as you are not there all the time. Personally we went for a wood burning solution for times when it is not really cold enough to put the bio heating on and/or it’s really cold and the heating is not adequate (we are getting soft in old age). Think you really have to go with professional advice for major heating decisions like this. It may be better if you could find someone that can explain your options based on your requirements. There was a member (or two) on here who are really experts in this field, unfortunately they do not frequent the site now very often, if at all. I believe one has went back to the UK, but still travels back and forward doing this very type of work. If you want I’m sure I can dig out his website for you.

Thanks for your suggestions. We have a real fire which we use occasionally but that doesn't help with heating the bulk of the house. We have town gas and already have radiators. The issue is reliability each time we go and getting hot water to all 3 floors, plus initial and ongoing costs of course. Need to look into air source heating but would tend to shy away based on its transience and high electricity bills.I am now concerned with new regs as to whether I can put a 40kw combi or even a 33kw inside the house? Do you think a 33kw boiler will work over three floors. Also what are the implications of it being 'condensing'?I have decided against a tank I think due to the added cost of routing and siting also am I right in that it will cost more to keep the water heated?We're in Parma Province and any help is always appreciated. We've just heard that our English project manager is divesting his business interests so we are very much alone now.

Maybe, have a look at the Ariston Nuos for your domestic hot water. It is a air source unit that can be wall mounted.www.ariston.comNot knowing about how large the house is, you could use air/air inverters on each floor for heating, or alternatively, something like the new Airx air/water heat pump. This would require a buffer tank as you have radiators.

Thanks I will look into it. Know nothing about air inverters!

Since 2014 all boilers with camera aperta must be mounted outside the property. he only type of boiler allowed to be inside is a type 'camera stagna' All boilers must be serviced annually and certified, and the installer must certify the legality of all installations.

A modern combi boiler should be a "camera stagna" (sealed chamber) balanced flue type of boiler and designed to be fitted inside the property. However you will need to check with an installer. Gas can be very expensive for heating - especially if you are not on town gas.The advantage of a replacement gas boiler is that it should be possible to fit as a replacement, the disadvanteges are cost of gas (if not on town supply) and complying with the regulations on gas boilers. However it is convenient and a good quality modern gas boiler should come with a sensible warranty.As Badger says, one solution is to use ASHP (air source heat pumps). One solution is a full air to water system that can heat radiators (although you might need to replace the radiators with larger ones due to the lower water temperature) and a hot water tank.An alternative is separate ASHP for hot water (eg an ariston which hangs on the wall and has everything built in - there are different sizes and some have external heat pumps) or a solar hot water system. There are different sizes Then have good air conditioners fitted for heating in the winter/cool evenings and cooling in the summer. It is possible to have a single outdoor unit with several indoor units instead of individual units. Cheaper to run than bottled gas and for heating you just turn it on.Cheapest for installation would be an electric water heater and some fan heaters - but would need a bigger electric supply for the heaters. Also this would be the most expensive to run. However if only used for a few weeks a year!You need to consider both your current and future requirements and work out what will be the best long term solution - it really does depend on individual circumstances. Expert advice may cost something but in the long term should more than pay for itself in having a system that works for you.Good luck

Many thanks for your help. See my reply above. Still at the confused stage I think!

Badger is one of the guys I would trust on the heating advice....

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Looking for advice about boilers - I

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