��������

[quote=Charles Phillips;120348]This idea of a route avoiding tunnels is not at all frivolous. It is pretty important to motorcycle riders, who have every reason for not wishing to challenge their lungs with 22kms worth of toxic fumes (eg. the San Gottardo).

It's also relevant to people riding vintage machines, which are not required to carry lights (and which therefore could be considered illegal in tunnels - quite apart from the question of the mental health of people riding through even a short unlit tunnel on an unlighted bike.)

There are also drivers, or passengers, who cannot stand driving in tunnels - maybe because of bad eyesight, or claustrophobia. There are others who cannot bear to drive on roads with big viaducts.

So, for me, the query of a Rome/Ancona route tunnel free was perfectly interesting. It isn't something you can easily check on a route map - and though I'd got most of the way there - (I can do the E45 Orte/Val Fabbrica avoiding tunnels, 'cos I needed to in the past) - I was working on how to avoid some of the north of Rome short tunnels on the A1 when the original thread got deleted, so I didn't follow through on some of the new roads (with tunnels) between Val Fabbrica and Ancona.

Driving without using tunnels or viaducts is a fascinating way of route planning: akin to designing a walking or cycling trip! Not irrelevant at all.[/quote]

Words of wisdom, intelligence and common sense, you should be a moderator Charles, and no, I am not being flippant. The ability to distinguish between what should and should not be moderated is the job of a moderator, otherwise the position can no longer be described as that of a moderator but rather that of a censor.

Not at all frivolous, but I think the ventilation of tunnels is a lot better than it used to be. I'd also rather not share roads with an unlit bike or anybody who can't cope with tunnels or viaducts ! Used to have an MZ which might as well have been unlit for all the efficiency of it's headlight and my riding at night used to be a LOT slower!

All good points Charles. That said, the ventilation in any car is provided from the air outside so we all suffer in tunnels in the same way that motorcyclists do - perhaps just not so obviously.

I didn't even see the thread mentioned - why was it deleted?

[quote=EddieV;120539]All good points Charles. That said, the ventilation in any car is provided from the air outside so we all suffer in tunnels in the same way that motorcyclists do - perhaps just not so obviously.

I didn't even see the thread mentioned - why was it deleted?[/quote]

That is a question many of us have been asking. So far no satisfactory reason has been forthcoming.

Try addressing your question directly to Marc, the moderator who deleted it. You might have better luck than I have had.

I saw this report recently:-

Italy’s tunnels are the most dangerous in Europe, a report released Monday said.
According to the report by Automobile Club ACI and roads agency ANAS, the result of controls run on 22 �������� tunnels so far showed a “critical scenario”, only one of three met safety standards, compared to eight out of 10 in the rest of Europe.

The report said 78 percent of �������� tunnels are hazardous compared to 36 percent in other European countries.

Lack of security in the tunnels is mainly attributable to inefficient fire and ventilation systems, badly identified escape tunnels, poorly managed traffic flows, missing traffic lights and ineffective management in case of emergencies.

not to mention junctions INSIDE tunnels. Up near Genoa we were driving along when someone shot out from the right inside the tunnel. Fortunately I had no one on the outside so i was able to move over. Still remember this over ten years later and I drive regularly round Rome and Naples

Going by the above posts there are more reasons to design tunnel free routes than I had ever considered, but the most compelling argument against �������� tunnels is that they don't have a view.

Think about it - tunnels go through the high bits of mountains, so you miss the spectacular panorama from thousands of metres altitude: alternatively they cut off wiggly bits of coastline so you miss the azure coves and the fishermen with their buckets by the side of the road. If you aren't in a rush, using any tunnel longer than about 3km is bound to have deprived you of some wonderful experiences!

Viaducts, on the other hand, are quite the opposite - I hunt these down for (...err, passengers...) quite fantastic views and a new perspective on the world.

[quote=Charles Phillips;120745]Going by the above posts there are more reasons to design tunnel free routes than I had ever considered, but the most compelling argument against �������� tunnels is that they don't have a view.

Think about it - tunnels go through the high bits of mountains, so you miss the spectacular panorama from thousands of metres altitude: alternatively they cut off wiggly bits of coastline so you miss the azure coves and the fishermen with their buckets by the side of the road. If you aren't in a rush, using any tunnel longer than about 3km is bound to have deprived you of some wonderful experiences!

Viaducts, on the other hand, are quite the opposite - I hunt these down for (...err, passengers...) quite fantastic views and a new perspective on the world.[/quote]

Lots of tunnels on the way down to Puglia on the A14, particularly in Abruzzo....very fast and very dangerous....Treat them with the utmost respect if you want to live! There are one or 2 particularly spectacular bridges too which are about a mile long and very high up. Lovely views from them but again you wont see much if you are the driver as you will be concentrating on getting across in one piece.