Abusivo if in catasto etc.?

robertwilkes Image
09/09/2010 - 12:23

My upstairs neighbour in a condominio is claiming that a wall opened up by a previous owner has resulted in damage to his apartment. The administrator (a lawyer) wrote to me: "Dato che NON CI SONO DUBBI sul fatto che l'apertura sia abusiva . . . .". The original plans of the building, date unknown, do not show the opening. However a geometra has researched the catasto and libro fondiario in the nearest town and found in the local commune offices a concessione edilizia in sanatoria (1992) and a certificato di abitabilita (1995). All plans attached to all these documents clearly show my apartment exactly as it is. Therefore he has prepared a letter declaring that my apartment is "assolutamente regolare ed abitabile". My question is whether it is nevertheless possible for the neighbour or the administrator to claim that the opening was abusiva. Do the plans in the catasto and commune prove that it was approved at some stage by the authorities? Incidentally the geometra is certain that even if the opening was made abusivamente it could not have led to the damage first reported at least ten years after the latest possible date for the opening.  @font-face { font-family: "Verdana";}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; }

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They are trying it on! they feel you will be an easy touch. We have just helped a friend with a renovation, and had the same sort of thing happen. Our geometra said no way could we have been responsibile for the damage, as it was a small amount we paid up, but had it have been different, we would have contested it

They are trying it on! they feel you will be an easy touch. We have just helped a friend with a renovation, and had the same sort of thing happen. Our geometra said no way could we have been responsibile for the damage, as it was a small amount we paid up, but had it have been different, we would have contested it

They are trying it on! they feel you will be an easy touch. We have just helped a friend with a renovation, and had the same sort of thing happen. Our geometra said no way could we have been responsibile for the damage, as it was a small amount we paid up, but had it have been different, we would have contested it

They are trying it on! they feel you will be an easy touch. We have just helped a friend with a renovation, and had the same sort of thing happen. Our geometra said no way could we have been responsibile for the damage, as it was a small amount we paid up, but had it have been different, we would have contested it

They are trying it on! they feel you will be an easy touch. We have just helped a friend with a renovation, and had the same sort of thing happen. Our geometra said no way could we have been responsibile for the damage, as it was a small amount we paid up, but had it have been different, we would have contested it

What matters is what shows on the catasto, which is presumably what your geometra looked at. You can get a copy of the current drawings as recorded easily enough, although if your geometra has already got a copy of the drawings you need only ask him for a copy. If not, you can even get a copy on-line from either or . I'm sure you can find others quite easily if you search. Once you have a copy of the current entry, send it to the lawyer acting for your neighbour - that should be enough.

I would not dispute the advice of your geometra. He is the best person to advise you. However you did pose an extra question: whch is whether the plans held by the comune and the catasto PROVE  that the wall removed in your apartment was done with permission. Clearly the removal of the wall WAS NOT done with a formal permission (a concessione d'edilizia IN SANATORIA means that the acceptance of the wall having been removed was made after the fact.) Despite that, if your geometra is happy then you should rest easy. 

Remember that in most of Italy what results at catasto is not legal proof of anything.  However, in the very north - Friuli, Bolsano the catasto is legally binding. Whether you are in that zone I dont know.  If the comune has the stato di fatto, I would side unconditionally with your geometra and agree with the others that the neighbours are out for some free building work.