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Everyone I know was quote by square metre so it possibly is common practice. Not sure if €700 is good as we had to get pine ones (money ran out). If you can I would suggest doing what you would do in the UK and get 3 quotes. When we got our 2nd lot of windows we got them from a local "company" rather than a falegname and actually found they were cheaper & better quality so it is well worth covering all types of providers if you can

For normal soft wood (Swedish pine) windows white/stained tip and tilt inward going. The going rate is about €350-400/m2 add about 30% for hardwood frames + VAT; so about €585/m2 incl vat.

You need to specify tip & tilt, tempered with argon gas filled low emission glass. The prices above were quoted for delivery March 2008 for a complete house renovation delivery in 6 weeks.

Your price seems slightly excessive - why not ask for a "sconto" of say 15%.

Good luck!!

:bigergrin:

Many thanks, will attempt to negotiate when I am out this weekend. Due to the remoteness of the house finding people is proving difficult and I guess maybe adding a premium to work.

I have just had a UK quote which when I work back to m2 (they quoted by window size) comes to about €420/m2, excl VAT and delivery to Italy.

[quote=MBH;81490]Hello,

I have had a quote for new hardwood windows including installation of circa €700 per square metre.

Is this a common approach to quoting? From UK experiences I would have been quoted on window size etc.

Does this seem like a reasonable quote?

Most of the windows are slightly less than a square metre so I am working back to individual window prices to compare to UK fabrication costs but I don't have any direct �������� comparatives.

Thanks

M[/quote]
whilst it is sometime since we had our windows put in so we don't have an updated price to suggest to you but we had windows made in hard wood (mahogany) put in with two "ante" in the typical style,had internal wooden shutters mounted on the windows,double glazing,chose our hinges and handles,and had fitted fly screens incorporated (a must) our price included of course the tin or alu frames which are put up by the builders BEFORE the windows are mounted to protect them from contact with the mortar etc,mounting and vat etc. Many of our windows were slightly less than 1 sq. metre the window manufacturer ( we didn't trust any carpenters) explained that a window of less than 1 sq metre is charged exactly the same as 1 sq. metre which makes sense because to "get it all" into such a small one is exactly the same amount of work (even more so)it's totally standard practice.
but would suggest you try a larger more business like company for alternative quote remember that kind of wood can change your estimate quite a lot as well as kinds of accessories (handles,hinges,shutters) make sure your estimate INCLUDES contro telai (the frames for the windows as above) delivery,mounting,VAT ETC with a "plan" of payment ie. 10-15% down payment on signing contract,75-85% between delivery and completed mounting remainder say + 30 days post finished work,also once final estimate is made with pay plan ask for discount and play with the factors..

Also am I right in thinking that the rate of tax is reflected on the type of work, renervation or restoration.? For our restoration work we paid 10% but if my memory serves me well had to provide proof of residency for this discount to be applied. I note this is the subject of another thread. So perhaps residency is the key?.
A

Of course residency is of value if you are renovating or building new (“prima casa” only) the vat is 10% resp. 4%. Don’t forget this has to include fitting to comply … if my memory serves me right.

Secondly… check the prices I gave you above but this offer include 20m2 of sliding/folding doors on to a portico. These are extremely expensive. So to give a more comparative price .. a 1.2 x 1.2 metre costs (Swedish pine) is €186/m2 + vat.

A query… The shutters take the brunt (naturally dependant on where you live) of the damage from the weather. Tight grown pine is more than adequate and with the waxing technology and painting they should last your lifetime and more maintenance is essential. There is nothing maintenance free not even hardwood windows.

[quote=lotan4850;81632]Secondly… check the prices I gave you above but this offer include 20m2 of sliding/folding doors on to a portico. These are extremely expensive ... [/quote]
Did you source these within Italy or from abroad? If the former, do you have a contact/indicative price for supply/fit? Also, any pic's of the installation? I've been mulling over replacing a pair of large picture windows and a set of glazed double doors, to provide an uninterrupted view out the back of my place ... but a chat with my (reliable but traditional) Geometra yielded nothing beyond a look that said pazzo Scozzese :-( I guess I'd be looking for about 5m wide x 2.5m high, either sliding, folding or a combo of the two ...

[quote=pigro;81633]Did you source these within Italy or from abroad? If the former, do you have a contact/indicative price for supply/fit? Also, any pic's of the installation? I've been mulling over replacing a pair of large picture windows and a set of glazed double doors, to provide an uninterrupted view out the back of my place ... but a chat with my (reliable but traditional) Geometra yielded nothing beyond a look that said pazzo Scozzese :-( I guess I'd be looking for about 5m wide x 2.5m high, either sliding, folding or a combo of the two ...[/quote]

I have a similar arrangement in mind but with slightly smaller dimensions. It's working out expensive because the falegname is assuming that we will want shutters across the sliding windows, similar to the shutters we have with all the other doors and windows. All of the windows and doors are made of some sort of African hardwood, selected because it has fewer knots than the chestnut which was originally specified. We need the shutters for security but wonder if there is a cheaper way of achieving the same end: the current specification allows for 4 massive shutters to cover a window over 3 metres wide- which is a lot of expensive timber. Any suggestions?

Aluminium shutters are the new wooden shutters but hardly in keeping with an existing building.
They are cheaper than wood. But as you rightly pointed out there is a lot of wood and they are actually more expensive than windows /m2 - how this is possible is for me a complete mystery(?).
:smile:

[quote=Ragusano;81641]IWe need the shutters for security but wonder if there is a cheaper way of achieving the same end: the current specification allows for 4 massive shutters to cover a window over 3 metres wide- which is a lot of expensive timber. Any suggestions?[/quote]

We have some double glazed french windows where it is not possible to add shutters so instead of using 'normal' glass for the outer layer a stronger reinforced type of glass was used - I don't think it is bullet proof, but it is not far off!

[quote=lotan4850;81657]Aluminium shutters are the new wooden shutters but hardly in keeping with an existing building.
They are cheaper than wood. But as you rightly pointed out there is a lot of wood and they are actually more expensive than windows /m2 - how this is possible is for me a complete mystery(?).
:smile:[/quote]

Wooden shutters require more manual labour than aluminium ones. This is the reason for the higher cost.
According to hubby architect the choice depends on a multitude of reasons, including the effect you want to achieve in the overall design. If you want to bring the outdoors into the indoors it is generally better to use aluminium, as the frame is lighter and produces this effect of transparency. If you want a heavier or stronger architectural expression, then you use wood.... but don't go and cover the doors and windows with curtains as you ruin the effect.
Other considerations are the position of the door or window... humidity will affect wood and you would have to be careful about maintenance....
Well, this is a bit of all what he told me.... he gave me a full conference and he is still talking... but I am not listening because I had enough and I am totally confused :veryconfused:. If you have any other specific questions, let me know and I will ask.

Going back to the original question, we paid our carpenter €470 for each of our '2 ante' chestnut windows. This included 'vetro termico' (doubled glazed glass) and installation. The windows were all a different size varying from c. 0.9m2 to c. 1.2m2. We were charged the same for each as the carpenter rightly said that the work is basically the same whether the window is 0.9 or 1.2. Shutters were an additional cost as were scuri ( the little 'doors' that cover the glass on the inside) which we had fitted to some of the windows.

These were 2006 prices so add a bit for today. Our builder wanted to include the windows in his overall contract but his quote (which of course included his profit margin as well as that of his subcontracted carpenter) was over 30% higher!

Hope this helps.

I read all the comments re chestnut v pine v aluminium but at the end of the day it is a matter of personal choice. We love our chestnut windows and are very happy with them. Unfortunately so do some of our local woodpeckers but that is another story!

No-one would expect me to approve of Tropical hardwoods but I sometimes think we've made things terribly complicated, opting for european Chestnut.

We now have some staining on the light wood windows and painted shutters.The shutters are not a big issue as we wanted a rather rustic look like a Provencal farmhouse.We have that!It can be washed off.

The windows have a thin impregnating coat but this is clear so staining is visible.Hopefully the summer will dry everything out and any marks can be sanded off.

Its a consideration and possibly painted pine could be a better option if you want to avoid tropical hardwoods?Of course it will need painting if its going to last a few Abruzzi winters.

For some reason we couldnt find grey Fondo or undercoat. As a tip if you are using the water based paint ( much nicer to use as it has no smell) mix in some dry pigment to the white fondo.I used burnt umber.It colours it a dark grey/brown.

With modern waxing and painting techniques most reputable manufacturers will give a 10 year paint guarantee on wooden shutters. So using pine instead of hardwood is a better and cheaper choice than mahogany for both wooden shutters and window frames.

However architect “Gala Placidia” is correct when discussing design for windows and smaller frames giving a certain design effect; but really these are not in keeping with an existing structure.

The weak point in a window is the frame and it’s closing mechanism. The u-value should be as low as possible; in aluminium windows when compared to wooden framed windows the u-value is always worse and generally more expensive. I believe aluminium window manufactures have resolved the insistent condense problems of the past.