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Are you sure? you generally can't sneeze in Italy without planning permission

Susi

We had a pool installed 3 years ago and were told that we did not need permission for a pool that was raised above ground. These come in kits and are fine if you are able to put it out of sight. We still approached the commune regarding this work and were told then that if we would be willing to partially bury it they would grant permission anyway.
I would play safe and get it run past the local commune.

We have just bought a very good 6.10mt x 3.75mt x 1.2mt Aluminium/plastic pool from Castarama (B&Q) in Bari for €1480. We ask the comune if we needed planing for it & they thought I was joking ( silly English man ). This is in San Michele comune.

I spoke to an Architetto in Toscana - and he said that you dont need planning permission for things that are considered movable.

Eg. an above ground pool, a camper van....

often you will find that communes like to be informed because you might well require permission to keep the pool filled... some areas of puglia have water restrictions i have heard.....and i guess this might apply in other dryer areas.... so it still might be worth checking things even if above ground that you can fill the thing from the water supply before you buy the thing... and if you dont have a private water supply a valid question might well be how much will it cost to fill.....another problem with the larger above ground pools is the weight....often a concrete base can be required and that might well require the planning application..... as others have said.... its worth asking the commune

We are planning to install a sunken swimming pool in a property we are purchasing in the San Michelle/Ostuni region of Puglia.

We have been advised that we should keep the property registered as rural and that the swimming pool can therefore not be described for planning purposes as a swimming pool, but rather as an 'open air water deposit'!

Has anyone else come across this and is it likely to cause any problems?

let us know how u get on, send private, re message about adverse replies.

All this is really interesting as we also intend to build a swimming pool, its so hot in Puglia, and I'm so outrageously pale, I'll need a dip to cool off.

I was however thinking more of a plunge like pool and then cheating the 'big pool' effect by having only a few inches of water extended to one side of ther pool. This will enlarge the look of the pool and perhaps enable glasses (or rather plastic beakers) of wine to be placed and remain cool, and have some kind of a stepping stone pathway to look cool. This will enable the pool to be emptied easier for cleaning (if its not a consistently deep pool).

Are swimming pool a nightmare to keep? or is it easier and cheaper to buy an off-the peg version?

Anyone got any other ideas?

Cheers Elaine :confused: :rolleyes:

What about water restrictions (now or in the future) is anyone worried that they may not be able to fill the pool?

Save rainwater, plenty of that in winter. We're having a rainwater storage tank of several tonnes capacity installed. The only tricky bit is the need to have a settling trap and filter installed between the rainwater run-off and the tank.

we have installed one of those castorama things.... i hesitate to call it a swimming pool but its very good for children only a metre deep and large enough for them to play in it all day with no problems at all....

the thing comes with filtre and piping and took about a day to erect.... two days to prepare the ground

the only reason i mention it is becuse of price differences and ease of installation... a fixed pool which we got quotes for ,slightly large but not much would have cost e10,000.... plus costs of excavation and pipework.... application to commune for permission and time to get permission... all hassle....

i reckon if this pool lasts 2 or 3 years thats fine....i can change it again and again over the next 20 or so years and still end up with it costing me less than a fixed one

as regards filling it..... well we have a private water supply.... a well.... in one of the buildings which we have never had tested for drinking but is fine for swimming in.... i think the question on water retriction is quite valid.... however you tend to fill the things up before the summer and you use very little amounts to maintain it.... there are serious water shortages now in various parts of italy so i guess it will be frowned on in some places...

you have to be meticulous about testing and cleaning the water...the smaller the pool... eg ours at 6 metres is considered small ....the more difficult to achieve a balance .... and the hotter it gets the harder it becomes....

still the point is that there is now little or no temptation to drive the thirty minutes to the coast in the midst of summer.... so i also reckon the thing will pay for itself.... the only thing i miss is visiting the sea food restaurants... however i would normally avoid these anyway this time of year and wait for most of the holidaymakers to go home....

so i consider it a good investment... children love it.... and late at night on a hot day its a god send.... and its a basic easily installed free from hassle amusement.... and i think i would make the same choice again regarding fixed interned pools versus the more fragile above ground types...

I'm interested in anyone's practical experience or answers to the questions above (planning assent, how to get the water to fill the pool, construction tips...) but, to chip in what little I know about Planning and to throw in a question about construction and maintenance of natural pools...

my mate, the local agent/renovation project manager, who sold us a little centro storico apartment in Martina Franca (TA), Puglia, and who seems pretty well-informed and cautious about not breaching planning law, confirms that...

'while the level of regulation varies from commune to commune, and some are extremely tight, it's common in the Itria Valley to bend the truth and call your pool an outside storage tank. The trick is not to aggravate the neighbours (on this or any other planning envelope-pushing such as small extersions) so they don't grass you up to the commune; most of them will have skeletons in their back yard, so its mutually beneficial to fit in'.

He suggests you may have to buy in water from a tanker to fill the pool 1st time, but then that you should at least consider means of collecting rainfill.

Which leads me to my questions- about natural pools, and more generally about green technology and conservation. There seems little interest in this locally (in Pugia) and I'd be intersted in any experiences- especially low-tech solutions (I'm less interested in photovoltic cells or geo-thermal technology as it seems to need high upfront investment)

For exAMPLE. there's growing interest in Norther Europe about Natural Pools- which look like ponds and dont need chemicals or filtration...google it or look at;
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/main.jhtml?xml=/gardening/2005/07/09/gpool09.xml&sSheet=/gardening/2005/08/08/ixgmain.html[/url]
this article opens by saying
'If only we had looked to our Teutonic neighbours, who have long enjoyed swimming-pools that harness the power of nature, rather than chemicals, to cleanse the water. First developed in Austria, these natural swimming-pools have quickly spread across the German-speaking world, and are set to do so elsewhere. Germany also has public natural pools that easily meet stringent EU health standards....'

I'm interested as I presently own only a small town apartment, but if I do buy a bigger Puglia property, it will be a trullo or Lamia and I'd like to know if there's interest in Italy in the green technology which self builders in UK take for granted...?
Alex

I'm not (yet) able to answer your questions about how the authorities deal with natural swimming pools, but I can say that I think the book mentioned at the end of the Telegraph piece ([URL="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0764321838/202-5250485-8535857?v=glance&n=266239&s=books&v=glance"]Natural Swimming Pools[/URL] by Michael Littlewood) would be a useful resource for anyone interested in the topic. It seems to me a good combination of practical information with nice photographs of pretty pools that one might aspire to.

I do want to have one of these things and I will be discussing the technicalities and legalities with a geometra in the next few months. But, at the moment, my intention is that "officially", all I'll be doing is a typical garden-mad DaftBrit thing and creating a large pond as a water feature. The fact that it happens to be big enough for humans to splash around in will be secondary to it's aesthetics and the benefit it provides to local wildlife.

As far as water usage, yes, that is a concern, but I think I'll be going the rainwater cistern route.

Al

[LEFT]We have a trullo in Puglia and are in the process of trying to sort out planning consents for an extension and a "open water storage facility". We are developing our plans through a local builder who does not see any problem with the water feature.

We have been planning this now for a year and had to restart several times due to misunderstandings in planning requirements. Hopefully we now have a solution and will be able to construct the extension and the water feature this winter.

We have discussed in detail the feasibility of a natural swimming pool in Puglia and had a site visit from a Munich based expert. He had previously shown us several natural swimming pools he had designed and built around the Munich area. His parent company has installed in many countries in Europe but not in Southern Italy has experience of using tropical plants for an indoor natural swimming pool complex. Our Munich man aims to use a combination of this experience for our site in Puglia.

We cannot find any examples of a natural swimming pool in Southern Italy but there are examples in Greece, Cyprus, Australia and California. The main concern is the build up of algae in the warmer waters. We aim to have a larger regeneration zone than normal, underground water storage and shade over the regeneration zone.

Our intention is to use a DC solar powered pump for circulation - provising a simple and highly efficient pumping solution, albeit one that only runs during the day. I am keen to do this so that I do not have to maintain electrical mains power at times when we are not on site and do not wish to load our electrical supply more than necessary. Although I have a few suppliers of suitable pumps (mainly American) I cannot to date get from my Munich man a proper specification of his pump requirements in order to allow me to compelte this part of the design. Overall it would appear that we need to develop the current natural swimming pools a little to suit our requirements in Southern Italy. However, I am confident that we should be able to achieve this.

In regard to solar, the only other system I am installing is passive vacuum based solar heating for domestic hot water. This again I am having to source from outside Italy as I have not been able to find suitable dual coil cylinders to enable backup water heating from our pellet stove otherwise used for space heating.

Sorry for boring everyone to tears.[/LEFT]

I wasn't bored..interesting post.. but what kept going through my mind is.. how much is all this going to cost and how favourably does it compare with more 'traditional' methods? :)

I'm not sure that is the point - whether it is "cheaper", or in any conventional financial way "sensible" - (it has to compare with climbing Everest because "it is there"): call it daft if you like - but I think I would get an amazing sense of achievement to have built a very low energy consuming pool etc. etc. Keep you in after dinner stories for a decade or so, at least, and if it doesn't "go green" extend that time period to a century!

I know widow twanky has a very precise "economic" take on his good information on alternative energy scenarios, (and Allan Mason has some great expertise on "natural" pools which seems untainted by a desire to make the sums add up!) - but for me it is one of those ambitions which can be validly held, and to hell with the costs!! I'm concerned about using "experts" though - if I didn't have, myself, personally, sufficient technical knowledge to evaluate the risks/advantages I'm not convinced I would trust an "expert" (aka "salesman")...........but then I'm a cynical b*gger.

It was just curiousity about the cost.. it's not like I'm ever gonna build a swimming pool on the terrace of a rented flat in Italy.. and I don't need a pool in the UK 'cus.. well, I just don't!

I saw a programme about these natural pools and thought the one they featured was quite wonderful.. they had it just like a long pond.. in front of a rather beautiful large Georgian house with water lillies and all sorts of other wonderful plants and wildlife. Crystal clear water and it must have felt very nymphlike and serene to swim in something like this.

Let me know if you ever build one. I'd love to try it.. must be the Pisces in me.
[ATTACH]969[/ATTACH]

Oh God, now I even know your star sign.............

I don't mind.. you knew it anyway.. it is the day you were born on this forum and one of the reasons I adopted you.. just don't tell anyone else!

Would you like a smilie to go with yours? :D

I have NO experience of water bodies in Italy, but I have been building natural water bodies in South Africa for the last 15 years. The ½ûÂþÌìÌà (northern Tususcany) summers are very much like a SA summer, unless you are able to keep at least 60% of the water body in good shade (water plants) you will have a large explosion of algae. Just pop down to a slow flowing river close to you and have a look at the state of the water, it will be green. I have found the only solution is the installation of UV sterilising lights. I would be very interested to hear how it is going with the pool next summer, always open to new ways of doing things.

[QUOTE=Flyingpigs][LEFT]We have a trullo in Puglia and are in the process of trying to sort out planning consents for an extension and a "open water storage facility". We are developing our plans through a local builder who does not see any problem with the water feature.

We have been planning this now for a year and had to restart several times due to misunderstandings in planning requirements. Hopefully we now have a solution and will be able to construct the extension and the water feature this winter.

We have discussed in detail the feasibility of a natural swimming pool in Puglia and had a site visit from a Munich based expert. He had previously shown us several natural swimming pools he had designed and built around the Munich area. His parent company has installed in many countries in Europe but not in Southern Italy has experience of using tropical plants for an indoor natural swimming pool complex. Our Munich man aims to use a combination of this experience for our site in Puglia.

We cannot find any examples of a natural swimming pool in Southern Italy but there are examples in Greece, Cyprus, Australia and California. The main concern is the build up of algae in the warmer waters. We aim to have a larger regeneration zone than normal, underground water storage and shade over the regeneration zone.

Our intention is to use a DC solar powered pump for circulation - provising a simple and highly efficient pumping solution, albeit one that only runs during the day. I am keen to do this so that I do not have to maintain electrical mains power at times when we are not on site and do not wish to load our electrical supply more than necessary. Although I have a few suppliers of suitable pumps (mainly American) I cannot to date get from my Munich man a proper specification of his pump requirements in order to allow me to compelte this part of the design. Overall it would appear that we need to develop the current natural swimming pools a little to suit our requirements in Southern Italy. However, I am confident that we should be able to achieve this.

In regard to solar, the only other system I am installing is passive vacuum based solar heating for domestic hot water. This again I am having to source from outside Italy as I have not been able to find suitable dual coil cylinders to enable backup water heating from our pellet stove otherwise used for space heating.

Sorry for boring everyone to tears.[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

Just a quick reply to your dilemma with regard to twin-coil cylinder, any decent plumbing suppliers can usually supply these, bought my 200 litre for my solar panel and wood burning stove.
Only took a week to order
Brianm

Hi,
all this talk of swimming pools....Does any one know how hard it is to actually get the planning permission...I can only assume that with all this talk of finding loop holes to dodge the sytem it is quite difficult...We are back out at our villa this week...hoping to find out about putting in a pool..Any one suggest any decent,not rip off...firm or person that may be able to help ...We are in puglia (Carovigno area..)
ciao
Jo

Try asking on here [URL="http://www.pugliaposse.com/forums/"]http://www.pugliaposse.com/forums/[/URL] some members have had swimming pools built.