½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

Ohhhh Lordy, do you people LOVE to flog a subject to death... There are programmes to persuade you to sell up and move abroad with no money, no skills, buy a wreck and fail to turn it into a fifteen star restaurant, but stay anyway..... Now you want more blooming dwelling on the misery those programmes have created. Will you be paying by the argument ? by the exasperation that everything is'nt like England? by the admission that the budget was too low?, or will you be slipping in a bloke who's a mate of the producer to create problems, I see that assistant producer in France is still swanning his way through the programmes... I know I wasn't any good at A, B or C, so now we'll try D. Are there no NEW ideas out there.......

Ohh, Good Luck BTW, people love watching the misery...:)

I think a lot of us have problems whether they are trying to sell or buy properties abroad or in the UK. But don't forget we chose to be here and if we have problems, most of us I would guess, would like to solve the problems instead of trying to escape them. I think maybe you should be asking why so many people are leaving the UK to live abroad and get a realistic view of the situation. Just read a few of the threads on this forum and you'll sense the euphoria of living abroad or just getting away from 'it'.

Everyone has their reasons for leaving or buying a second home abroad, none of which could be generalised into one program that will effectively destroy the dreams of some whilst putting others off taking the plunge.

Living abroad makes you rich in experience. Why do the people always like to see the unsuccessful ventures of others?

I imagine it is probably because there's not much mileage in a series titled: Bought a great house abroad, did it up and enjoyed myself despite having to dig DEEP into my pockets.

Anyway, if you were a television producer wouldn't you want to dream up a nice project that meant you could spend several months in a nice warm and sunny country where the people are nice and the food and wine are good? Have a heart guys.

luana999 if you/your company want you can pay for the rennovations to my property, i will in return let you come and film your programme and make up any problems you think will entertain the discerning british tv viewer pm me if you are interested ciao marco

Yet another lot trying to make fools of someone. A successful move does not make good television! Stay away we have met people who have been involved and it ended in tears!!

Have noticed that villasibillini have done quite well even though the programme made out things were not good for them but maybe that was because the family put the effort into making it work in their favor. Don't know all the facts just an over all view of how things have been since so I could be wrong.

They could do a programme of the on going saga of us still trying to buy our Trullo, not! :rolleyes:

How about a programme on dodgy estate agents in Italy.
For example some like to value a property at E50, then advertise to the brits for E90, the brits know its a good buy compared with uk prices, so are happy to pay that price.
They are persuaded to underdeclare at the rogito to save tax for both parties.
'Its the way we do things in Italy, in fact the notaio expects it!'
The ½ûÂþÌìÌà get his E50, and the brit gets a fab house in Italy.
The estate agent gets a brand new car 3 days later. Everyones happy!!!
But then the brits meet up with the vendors after the sale, 4 generations of the same family who reluctantly sold the house they were born in, and discover that they only recieved half the money paid.
Lovely, kind friendly people who should have been paid what the house was worth.
They cant prove anything unless they are prepared to pay the excess taxes, and if they do will these thieves really end up in prison?
The estate agents continue with this scam selling lots of houses, but then they have to get rid of the euros just in case they are investigated, so off to Spain to buy a house, then Tenerife, then another part of Italy.
Then they put these houses back on the website for sale in Sterling, very cheap for a quick sale.
When these houses sell the English partner puts the money in his bank account and they are laughing. for now!!
But what if 6 brits get together and decide they will pay the taxes and contact their vendors who are also prepared to pay!!
Let battle commence!

So so true!!

but I do feel sorry for the good agents. :(

Hi all, yes there are loads of programmes on moving abroad and the ensuing poblems, but it seems that it makes more interesting viewing to home in on problems. However there are so many people that just dream of moving abroad, they can't get enough of any information true or false - so the programme makers continue.

As for us, we made a conscious decision to take part in last years A Place in Italy, based on the premise of no bad publicity and we had our eyes wide open. We knew the area would look great, if we came over ok it would be a bonus, but if on the other hand we looked like imbeciles, maybe people would take pity on the idiots trying to run a hotel and still come to visit. However if we had come across as arrogant, wealthy English that had done everything well - that would not have made great viewing and certainly wouldn't have worked. We are just average, ordinary people who were discontented with life in the UK and took a gamble and began our adventure at the age of 50.

Luckily for us, it paid off and greatest of all the programme has been shown in the US, Australia, Holland and several repeats on Sky. The crew were great, we had some hysterical times and where else could we have advertised for free to 1.4 million viewers on the first showing.

So to anyone that's thinking of doing it - weigh up the advantages and disavantages and have a go! Would we do it again? - absolutely.

David

When you agree to take part in these ventures do you have to sign some kind of non-disclosure agreement?

I just wondered, since obviously sometimes the programme maker must want to generate a plot or refilm a missed incident.

I vaguely remember an incident in the show where a lady turned her APE over into a ditch and the crew happened to be on the scene. (Did she fall or was she pushed?:D ).

Another show we perversly enjoyed was the one with a couple (barristers I think) who visited Amandola area looking for a palace. I believe they ended up buying a farmhouse ruin in Abruzzo at the end of the programme.

As long as you get something positive from the deal good oh.

Dave Soon to own a ruin

How convenient was that - its the same programme A Place in Italy with both our cleaner from the Midlands (with the Ape) and the lawyers. Great for the programme makers that they were behind her when she crashed!

Lets' just say no one is forced to do anything against their will, and after all where would the ratings be without reality TV?

Where in Marche are you moving to?

Pam

Pam

If all goes well between Monte Vidon Combatte and Petritoli.

Dave & Dawn

OK I have to take issue with Herealready's post of 30 Nov. Firstly, Im not an estate agent and have no beef or axe to grind. But who is more stupid? The English who are prepared to pay over the odds for a house or the ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs who are prepared to accept half of the property's value? I know of no ½ûÂþÌìÌà who would sell for a figure they are not happy with. If you find out afterwards you could have doubled your money, it's your fault. As for undeclaring, it is a fact of life here, so its pointless arguing its illegal or wrong. Everybody DOES do it.
If the agent buys the house and sells it on, he's done nothing wrong, he's played the market, and deserves his new car. If he's acted illegally then its easy to prove and issue a denuncia. If the money isnt paid in front of the notaio then both the buyer and seller are at fault, and shouldnt leave the notaios office without resolving the problem. Theres no point in looking for scapegoats when the problem is buyers and sellers act without thinking.

[quote=ram]OK I have to take issue with Herealready's post of 30 Nov. Firstly, Im not an estate agent and have no beef or axe to grind. But who is more stupid? The English who are prepared to pay over the odds for a house or the ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs who are prepared to accept half of the property's value? I know of no ½ûÂþÌìÌà who would sell for a figure they are not happy with. If you find out afterwards you could have doubled your money, it's your fault. As for undeclaring, it is a fact of life here, so its pointless arguing its illegal or wrong. Everybody DOES do it.
If the agent buys the house and sells it on, he's done nothing wrong, he's played the market, and deserves his new car. If he's acted illegally then its easy to prove and issue a denuncia. If the money isnt paid in front of the notaio then both the buyer and seller are at fault, and shouldnt leave the notaios office without resolving the problem. Theres no point in looking for scapegoats when the problem is buyers and sellers act without thinking.[/quote]

Yes fine if you understand the rules but not when you don't. It just isn't that simple.

ram

Don't want to discuss which nationality is more stupid, but herealready's post pointed out a possible corrupt way of using the system.

Finding a dusty old painting of 4 dutch blokes in an old ladies attic and offering her £50 for it and then selling it at Sothebys for £5 million is a sad fact of life.

The scam HAR mentioned would suggest that the owner/vendor of the property did not find out how much the purchase price of the property was.

In our case the vendor who signed the same documents (in triplicate) we did knows exactly what we are paying for his property (and seems very happy).

Unless the unscrupulous agent goes around buying the property first, then selling it I can't see the point.

In my view that's good business, if I had a Tardis I would travel back 25 years and buy all the barns in Cornwall and farmhouses in Tuscany.

Then I could live with all the celebs in Puglia.

Dave:D

points taken.
But.... there's always a but.... if you dont understand the rules, why cant you either read one of the many books, magazines, even internet forums which explain, or use a British firm to buy the property. These things seem to happen to people who cant be bothered to do the research or think they know best. Caveat emptor and all that. Sorry, that's my gripe over and done with. Back to sweetness and light.

[QUOTE=ram]OK I have to take issue with Herealready's post of 30 Nov. Firstly, Im not an estate agent and have no beef or axe to grind. But who is more stupid? The English who are prepared to pay over the odds for a house or the ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs who are prepared to accept half of the property's value? I know of no ½ûÂþÌìÌà who would sell for a figure they are not happy with. If you find out afterwards you could have doubled your money, it's your fault. As for undeclaring, it is a fact of life here, so its pointless arguing its illegal or wrong. Everybody DOES do it.
If the agent buys the house and sells it on, he's done nothing wrong, he's played the market, and deserves his new car. If he's acted illegally then its easy to prove and issue a denuncia. If the money isnt paid in front of the notaio then both the buyer and seller are at fault, and shouldnt leave the notaios office without resolving the problem. Theres no point in looking for scapegoats when the problem is buyers and sellers act without thinking.[/QUOTE]

If there are buyers out there who are prepared to pay top dollar for properties that were previously not wanted by locals because the economy in that particular region doesn't allow them sufficient disposable income to cover refurbishment costs then it is an agents job to find those buyers and he might quite properly decide to engage an English sub-agent to help him. I haven't bought my dream house in Italy yet and am probably arguing against my own interests but If the agent pockets the difference between what the seller was asking and the buyer was willing to pay then I can't help feeling that if anyone at all has been cheated it is the seller and [B]not[/B] the buyer.

My point exactly, The English knew the price and were happy to pay it, but as the saying goes 'a house is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it' and in this case the ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs were ripped off not because they are stupid, but because in this part of Italy they are unaware of the real value of their property and the estate agent kept the true value to himself.
Also some of the brits in this case researched for 18 months, read loads of books, absorbed internet info, and attended various exhibitions and seminars on the subject, but you can never have enough info when making a move like this, and it does'nt matter how intelligent you are the fact is you can only learn somethings from experience.
The brits in this case are not expecting money back and I don't even think the ½ûÂþÌìÌÃs are but it would be nice to stop these people ripping off any more of their countrymen!

[quote=ram]points taken.
But.... there's always a but.... if you dont understand the rules, why cant you either read one of the many books, magazines, even internet forums which explain, or use a British firm to buy the property. These things seem to happen to people who cant be bothered to do the research or think they know best. Caveat emptor and all that. Sorry, that's my gripe over and done with. Back to sweetness and light.[/quote]

Sorry ram we did do the research, read the books, magazines and used a Brit who works for ½ûÂþÌìÌà Agent. The books etc do not tell what can really happen with ½ûÂþÌìÌà property purchase and we have been given lie after lie from the so called helpful agent so do you really think they would tells us any other ways they can make money. Sorry but this has been going on since May so as I said it isn't that simple and I can assure you we have been more than bothered. If it wasn't for this forum and the recomandations provided we would be in a much worse state than we are but hopefully not much longer as our lawyer is near to completing the case.

[QUOTE=ram]points taken.
But.... there's always a but.... if you dont understand the rules, why cant you either read one of the many books, magazines, even internet forums which explain, [U][I]or use a British firm to buy the property[/I][/U]. These things seem to happen to people who cant be bothered to do the research or think they know best. Caveat emptor and all that. Sorry, that's my gripe over and done with. Back to sweetness and light.[/QUOTE]

We used a British agent to buy our property and granted they were there to the end to see it through to get their 'cash' paid but when it all went sour as the property was found to be illegal and the telephone hadn't been connected as they said it had, they decided they wanted nothing to do with us. Refused even to give us an invoice. Didn't want to know and didn't want to help. Anybody want there name, let me know, they have definately got a good scam working for them. Nice web site, all the right signs but no after service, nothing, zilch, in fact they really didn't care once they were paid and threatened us with court action if we said anything bad about them publicly!

[As for undeclaring, it is a fact of life here, so its pointless arguing its illegal or wrong. Everybody DOES do it.

Yes...most people do appear to declare a lower figure because it is part of the tradition here, but this carries risks (not forgetting the penalties for tax evasion if you are caught) especially when neighbours who have pre-emption rights can come along and put a spanner in the works.

[QUOTE=ram]points taken.
But.... there's always a but.... if you dont understand the rules, why cant you either read one of the many books, magazines, even internet forums which explain, or use a British firm to buy the property. These things seem to happen to people who cant be bothered to do the research or think they know best. Caveat emptor and all that. Sorry, that's my gripe over and done with. Back to sweetness and light.[/QUOTE]

why would a british company be more suitable to buy an ITALIAN property?? :confused: :confused:

wouldnt it make more sense to use an italian estate agent, whose ativity is also regulated by the government, rather than an english cowboy, "wannabe" estate agent who has only turned into a "property consultant" after moving to italy and finding out that he could not get any other job because of limited knowledge of italian language???

in our case, we are using a reputable italian estate agent ([url]www.gabetti.it)[/url], a reputable italian law firm ([url]www.giambronelaw.co.uk[/url]) plus a lot of common sense, and everything seems to be going quite well! ;)

and by the way, we are buying a trullo!! so not all trullos purchases turn into nightmares, although this is our third attempt! :D

{we already had to purchases falling through because of problems with the trullos which we liked}

½ûÂþÌìÌÃlover,
oh, you are so naive my little amore. Where do you get the idea that the "Goverment regulates estate agents".
Ask me about 'Housearounditalty'.
Saluti
Rob

[quote=Rob]½ûÂþÌìÌÃlover,
oh, you are so naive my little amore. Where do you get the idea that the "Goverment regulates estate agents".
Ask me about 'Housearounditalty'.
Saluti
Rob[/quote]

Rob...

Have mentioned this on Forum a number of times. When you trawl through books on the subject of mediazione, there is a lot of rhetoric. But the problem is that there is no effective system of governance and hence the rise of the cowboy class.

Even industry organisations such as FIAIP and FIMAA continue to battle against abusivismo...but it still goes on.

I am aware of a number of people in the Marche who operate illegally (most of the worst offenders are non-½ûÂþÌìÌÃs) and do not provide any form of support, mainly because they are not technically qualified to do so, despite claims that they are (so called project managers for example who can't even switch on a boiler, let alone manage a renovation project). Do people really want to place their properties in the hands of such unprofessional operators? I speak from experience because we have been called in to sort out a number of problems caused by the cowboy and cowgirl class. It is a different matter when you are dealing with a Brit who is a properly qualified builder, carpenter or surveyor for example.

I have also worked with an architect who has surveyed some properties in Abruzzo on my behalf, only to discover a number of legally related snags. In fact, in the architect's professional opinion, these properties should not even be placed on the market. But no matter how much advice is offered, people still throw caution out of the window.

I make the point yet again...be under no illusion. Cowboys just want your money and are not interested in client support. To them, you are polli da spennare!

I never said use a British estate agent... I meant an British lawyer specialising in overseas sales such as John Howell.. ( I have no connection with the firm), at least then you have recourse in a British court if they fail to do what they say. And they understand the law and practises in Italy.

As for the rest, We are still talking about the 'real value' of a property...I would say the price the BRits are prepared to pay is not the real value of the property, but an inflated price dreamed up by those who think that all tourists are rolling in money. In my house dealings, I ahve only ever used one agent, who was honest as they come... (but I weeded out a few who I wouldnt touch with a bargepole), otherwise I have dealt directly with the vendor and a notaio. And Ive never had a problem.

Back to undeclaring... yes it does techincally carry penalties and problems, but as long as the declared price is above the rate catastale there shouldnt be a problem. In Sicily the declared price is routinely 25% or less of the purchase price and when you buy a house from a captain in the carabinieri and he is unwilling to raise the declared price, you have to accept that everyone does underdeclare!

Today I have recieved both an email and a phone call from channel 4, suggesting that I may be housetrapped in the sun. Dont know how they got my details but would really like it if they lost them soon.
Firstly it aint sunny and secondly even with this much snow I can get out in my old Land rover.
Not that I want to as the log basket is full, so is the freezer and wine rack.The fire is roaring away, and I am molto contento.
Its just a pity theres nothing GOOD on the telly!

Charles Hi,

I think the thing most of us, reading these threads, regarding buying in italy is, 'who can we put our trust in'.
The days of 'Trust me, i'm a doctor' have long gone,(or has it?) so we need to find WHAT sort of checks we need to use before we go off using them.
For example, is there an institute/association that estate agents/builders etc.,could belong to? You know the sort of thing, regulatory bodies that we in the UK join specically designed to give the customer confidence & control its' members, with the obvious reassurance that if anything goes wrong, you have something/someone to refer to. As you also aware, to join these bodies you have to show your qualifications AND, in my case here in the UK, offer the names of 10 customers the association could write to for a reference. Of those 10, THEY chose 4 they would contact.
So when people asked me for references i just recited MIdiagE, JIB, Guild of Master Craftsmen.
If the estate agent/builder has no such affiliation, then, apart from a solicitor, who do you turn to?
Is it just a case now of the presumtion that WHATEVER you are setting out to do there'll be some smart arse somewhere trying to trip you up. The cynical view perhaps.

Charles, if an estate agency can be setup with ONE director only holding a licence to trade. Can they then legally employ as many 'Agents' as they like and do these 'Agents' have to have any formal training at all?
Or do they get round it by not employing them, but work as self employed freelance agents? I ask because every one of the 'Agents' we were exposed to honestly had little or no clue about the house they were showing us.
They couldn't answer the most elementary of questions, never mind any subtle nuances like 'how do you turn the water on?'.
Rob

rob.... very wise words....

i believe the person to turn to is linda travella.... who is or was until very recently the president of the association(proffesional) of european estate agents... i think she runs casa travella ...this obviously has to be better than most as she is the president of the governing body.... and they must obviously be the best most trusted estate agency in italy... i believe her son runs it... in the past i think she was some sort of property guru for this magasine...is it travella or tavella...anyway whatever

to become an estate agent here requires you to know someone in the chamber of commerce who will allow you to pass the exam.... the national estate agent bodies here have been trying to take control away from them with little success...i also am not really sure that it would do much good as most probably the reason is to limit any competition in any case...

however i have posted on this before ...there are viable options to the internet .... use them as a research tool ...even visit some of the houses and then visit some italian agencies and you might well spot the difference....

obviously this is hard for those of you who have no italian at all... but in all honesty if you see a house which you like then hand the deal over to one of the uk/italian lawyer people... its most probably the best way of attempting to buy anywhere here.... they have already built up a good portfolio of agents that obviously are less than honest...they can research a price database initially to work out if the price is within the realms of sanity... and check.monitor the whole deal....

late advice for those that have already found themselves in difficulty with registered agents.... but forget about registered or not... there is no security in it either way...

i do believe one agency here in abruzzo only got registered after my italian father in law got on to them about how we were being treated and spoke to the chamber of commerce... they are now still in bussiness...registered but from various pm s and emails i would suggest thier practice has not changed

... charles is right .. there are governing bodies... a good question might be how many registered estate agents have been thrown off the books through registered complaints.... the answer will most probably be zero....

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Rob…[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Am glad you raised this one for trust is very important. And so is professional integrity! [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]To answer your questions:[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]1) In Italy you have FIAIP (FEDERAZIONE ITALIANA AGENTI IMMOBILIARI PROFESSIONALI) and FIMAA (FEDERAZIONE ITALIANA MEDIATORI AGENTI D’AFFARI). But not all agents belong to these organisations. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]You’ve also got the CAMERA DI COMMERCIO and the MINISTERO DELL’INDUSTRIA e COMMERCIO. Contractors should be registered at the REGISTRO DI IMPRESE. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]The question is: are the accepted and practiced methods some of these organisations use to set standards of performance acceptable or not? Judging by the relatively poor performance of some organisations and individuals operating in real estate, together with their debatable morals, maybe not. However, in fairness to these regulatory bodies, perhaps the root of the problem stems from the fact that there are certain unconquered loopholes in the law. For example, a friend of mine has a chain of professional real estate agencies in Tuscany. There is a consulente immobiliare right next door to one of his offices. However, this organisation is permitted to trade because it provides consultancy. It is not operating as an estate agent. This is just one of the many conundrums of Italy’s legal culture. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]2) An estate agency can be set up as a company or with one person being iscritto nel ruolo. In fact, at one stage there were problems with the interpretation of this category since either a person or a company could be iscritto. The problem has now been eliminated by a ministerial decree removing areas of divergence that previously existed between legislation 39/1989 and regulation 452/1990.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]This means that your company Rob S.r.l. can be iscritto nel ruolo for example, although you as MD or legal representative will have to sit and pass the exam. You can employ people to work for you but they don’t necessarily have to be iscritti nel ruolo. Moreover, you can also have a network of freelance people working away in the background to provide you with clients and again, they don’t necessarily need to be iscritti nel ruolo. Since [I]you[/I] are the only person iscritto, you are the only one legally (article 1755 of the Civil Code refers) entitled to receive a commission (provvigione) for every successful transaction. The freelancer who has just brought you a client and closed the sale will expect some financial reward and will most likely invoice you for consultancy services. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Know what you mean about turning the water on. I know of one so-called property management company operating in the Marche whose head honcho complained that the heating system in a client’s property was faulty. When we went to have a look we found that the main trip switch was in the off position! [/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=adriatica]rob.... very wise words....

i believe the person to turn to is linda travella.... who is or was until very recently the president of the association(proffesional) of european estate agents... i think she runs casa travella ...this obviously has to be better than most as she is the president of the governing body.... and they must obviously be the best most trusted estate agency in italy... i believe her son runs it... in the past i think she was some sort of property guru for this magasine...is it travella or tavella...anyway whatever[/QUOTE]

Hi John....I disagree with this. PM me and I will explain....

[QUOTE=Charles Joseph][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]2) An estate agency can be set up as a company or with one person being iscritto nel ruolo. In fact, at one stage there were problems with the interpretation of this category since either a person or a company could be iscritto. The problem has now been eliminated by a ministerial decree removing areas of divergence that previously existed between legislation 39/1989 and regulation 452/1990.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]This means that your company Rob S.r.l. can be iscritto nel ruolo for example, although you as MD or legal representative will have to sit and pass the exam. You can employ people to work for you but they don’t necessarily have to be iscritti nel ruolo. Moreover, you can also have a network of freelance people working away in the background to provide you with clients and again, they don’t necessarily need to be iscritti nel ruolo. Since [I]you[/I] are the only person iscritto, you are the only one legally (article 1755 of the Civil Code refers) entitled to receive a commission (provvigione) for every successful transaction. The freelancer who has just brought you a client and closed the sale will expect some financial reward and will most likely invoice you for consultancy services. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what happens usually.
I deal, daily, with estate agencies and, apart from some good exceptions, most of them have the structure Charles stressed:
- A company
- a boss who's regoular estate agent, i.e. iscritto nel ruolo
- a network of untitoled persons, working for the company and hoping to receive a percentage of the commission the company will get if the purchase is closed.
The majority of these persons have very poor knlowledge of legal or techincal questions and their only goal is to close the purchase as soon as possible and
their pre and post-contractual assistance is scarce.
Many agencies have a broker activity for loans too and I've noted that many of them do not even know the difference between a debtor and a guarantor.
One of the reasons because this is happening, is that it's only in the last years that estate agencies have had a huge growth.
In the past (I mean until 10/8 years ago) the real estate market wasn't controlled by agencies and many purchases were closed privately, without brokers.
When I started my professional activity (on 1990) in Porto Recanati there were about 4/5 agents, now there are al least 10/12 agencies
Thanks to the big growth of the real estate market, there are many more players and, consequently, the quality level is lower, because the system isn't customer oriented and people's still looking for houses.

A last advice for all people dealing with irregular agents: if they are not "iscritti", they have no right for commision: they cannot take action against to you in a Court to be payed.

Hello Notaio

I've just got to say this forum is a better place because of you. I just wish we'd have known you before our trouble days. All the advice I've read on the forum from yourself has been invaluable...... it's nice to know you are out there should the need arise! Forewarned is to be forearmed!!

[QUOTE=notaio]In the past (I mean until 10/8 years ago) the real estate market wasn't controlled by agencies and many purchases were closed privately, without brokers.
When I started my professional activity (on 1990) in Porto Recanati there were about 4/5 agents, now there are al least 10/12 agencies
Thanks to the big growth of the real estate market, there are many more players and, consequently, the quality level is lower, because the system isn't customer oriented and people's still looking for houses.[/QUOTE]

Things could go full circle, meaning that the sellers and the buyers might become so disenchanted with the agents, that the sellers go back to selling on their own to the buyers. This is exactly what is happening in California. We are now selling our home by ourselves, picking our own real estate attorney, escrow manager and mortgage company. We can pass a huge savings on to the potential buyers.The last 4 homes that sold near us were sold by owners.

Buona Sera Greatscott,
What do you think the reason was for this change of attitude?
Saluti
Rob

Could it be the advance taking of Internet at least in the countries where the web use has widely been adapted? Today it is very cheap for an individual to put a house (or anything else) for sale and it's simple. In Finland you can hardly find any apartments/houses in the newspapers because the web is so easy and well organized.

[QUOTE=Rob]Buona Sera Greatscott,
What do you think the reason was for this change of attitude?
Saluti
Rob[/QUOTE]

Merry Christmas Rob, this is Dee :)

First I must say that I enjoy your humor very much!

What's happened here is that prices have gone up and agents are not working well together. They are not bringing potential clients to the homes of their competition (which would mean splitting the commission 3% and 3%).

The home owners are upset because of the super-high commission rates and people who are interested in homes are scared to deal with their high pressure agents.

The solution has been to do "for sale by owner". This is just putting a sign in the front yard where people driving by can see it. This lets buyers who are looking for a home in your neighborhood talk to you, the owner directly.They know they can get a better price and will be able to get questions answered.

[QUOTE=Panteric]Could it be the advance taking of Internet at least in the countries where the web use has widely been adapted? Today it is very cheap for an individual to put a house (or anything else) for sale and it's simple. In Finland you can hardly find any apartments/houses in the newspapers because the web is so easy and well organized.[/QUOTE]

Hello and Merry Christmas to you too Panteric!

You're also right! A seller can put up a website themselves, and even pay a small fee and get into the MLS (Multiple Listing Service) worldwide. The web has changed everything.

Dee, you little cuteness,

Would you recommend that anyone looking to buy in Italy should just go out there & look around FIRST, before they START to look for property?
So many new English neighbours we have met, who bought in Italy, say that if they had the time again, they would prefer to just go out there & see what's available.

NOT GO THROUGH AN ESTATE AGENT FIRST?

Come out soon girl
Best Regards
Robxxxxxxxx

LOL! Oh Rob... I'm 5'10", I love the idea of being called cute :D

Seriously, John and I plan on renting a house for a month (or more) and spending a lot of time looking around. We're getting educated and we've met some wonderful people, including professionals here. When in Le Marche we will meet up with our friends, and explore on our own. We will look at some places we have already set up, but we will not decide on such an important thing as buying a home at the drop of a hat. We plan on taking the time to look at as much as we can in our areas of interest.

As soon as our sale happens, everything goes into storage and we're on our way to your arms Rob ;)

Dee darling,
I'm 6.1, single, 50ish, (So Linda says), look like george clooney AND love animals. How can i NOT be the best catch on this forum!!!! Ask Charles Joseph!!!
From your previous reply, i get the feeling you agree that 'One should look first before you buy'.
Then look for/& if you need an estate agent, then ask.
Buon Natale Caro
Robxxxxx

[QUOTE=Rob]From your previous reply, i get the feeling you agree that 'One should look first before you buy'.
Then look for/& if you need an estate agent, then ask.
[/QUOTE]

You've got it "George" ;)