½ûÂþÌìÌÃ

The kitchen process can be quite a long one in Italy it was for us anyway. It is very kitchen and the egg.

We decided not to go the IKEA route and found a specialist with a good italian kitchen range and a wider than normal choice of appliances. However we were unprepared for the quantity of choices we would have to make. Colour we were prepared for and choice of handles but door material, worktop material, depth of worktop, choice of plinth, interior fittings, types of lighting etc. It went on and on. Every time we thought we had reached a basic design we had to go through menus of choice. Frankly it was mind-boggling and took hours of patient explanation and guidance!

Stage 1 several appointments with the designer.

Stage 2 you get your kitchen design and technical layout for electricity, gas, water etc once you have signed the contract and paid the deposit. There seems to be a fear of sharp client practices - that you will go somewhere else and have a local carpenter make it up for you!

Stage 3 electrician, plumber, re-tiling floor, tiling walls - all arranged with separate trades working from the design.

Stage 4 measuring exactly and placing of fabrication order by the kitchen company.

Stage 5 6-8 weeks for delivery of kitchen. Then appointment is made for first fitting of some of the kitchen

Stage 6 first fitting floor and tall cabinets only. Creation of template for the marmarista (stone worktop) Lots of boxes left.

Stage 7 2 weeks later. Fitting of worktop, sink, rest of kitchen wall cabinets. Later afternoon plumber to make water and gas connections and fit tap.

All in all, for us, the process began in February and finished in November. We did during this time have central heating and re-wiring of the whole house so this delayed stage 4.It may be that our experience is not typical. Do bear in mind that we hit several public holidays and lost 8 weeks over the summer for the great shutdown.

Anyway the final result - all the odd room angles dealt with, substantial units, effective lighting and the type of worksurface I wouldn't even think about in England. Amazing quality well below UK prices for a similar product. Fitted appliances more expensive than the UK but only slightly.

Better than we could have achieved DIY or IKEA certainly. Kitchen fitters were very skilled - it would have taken us weeks.

My top tip always be very clear about the timeline and then add at least a quarter more.

We took the Ikea route and fitted it ourselves - very pleased with the result. Nobody quite believes it is Ikea.
If you don't want to "go screw yourself" then Ikea offer a fitting service that is priced by linear metre of cupboard space but I don't know what they would do in the event that your kitchen is not a perfect rectangular box with all necessary services sprouting from the wall at the exact point where they are required.

I have installed 3 kitchens in 3 different places I have lived in here in ITaly. I think the biggest mistake most foreigners make is that they rely on specialist kitchen shops who charge astronomical fees. What I have always done is go to our local housewares shop and ask them if they sell full kitchens. They normally do. They then bring out their catalogs and you can start looking through them. They are knowledgible and can answer your questions as well as they can get samples of finishes if you need to see them. Someone from the store will come out and measure and you can discuss likes and dislikes. Place your order and wait for delivery. Just make sure you have the basics fixed before delivery (if you need to retile, call a tile man, need to move pipes, call a plumber, etc.) After the kitchen is installed, call the plumber againj to have the lines fitted and the gas attached. If you hire all of the people to do the project, you wil pay their flat fee. If you go through a specialty shop you pay extra for each of the specialists. As long as you have a good design and know what you want there is no reason to go to a specialost. It is not rocket science. And anyway, most specialists will "help" you design by telling you where you should put things. Amazing how the oven is always right next to the refrigerator.

As to savings, I compared on our current kitchen what it would have cost to go to a specialist and using our old neighborhood mom and pop shop. Not including appliance, the difference was €4,000. Another thing specialty shops sometimes do is get you to but the appliance brands that they recommend because they get these at a discount and then mark up the price for the buyer themselves.

[QUOTE=Cassini]Anyway the final result - all the odd room angles dealt with, substantial units, effective lighting and the type of worksurface I wouldn't even think about in England. Amazing quality well below UK prices for a similar product. Fitted appliances more expensive than the UK but only slightly.[/QUOTE]

I know it's a crass question, but can you give some idea of the cost and how big the kitchen is? I'm not asking for an inventory or detailed price breakdown, just some idea of whether you're talking about a huge farmhouse kitchen and €10,000 or a corner of an ancient townhouse cantina and €50,000...

While I was very interested in your detailed description, Cassini, I have to say that I really liked Cristina's approach. I'm a long way from having an ½ûÂþÌìÌà farmhouse to renovate, but one thing I am already clear on is that I will always make an effort to deal with local firms and tradesmen, even if this isn't always the cheapest option.

Al

As the saying goes, "It's not what you know, but who you know!". We're having a kitchen installed next week obtianed directly from the manufacturer/wholesaler who supply all the kitchen showrooms. They are based in the Giulianova area (where indeed there are an abundance of factory outlets).

I'd be happy to provide you with details.

Good luck with the move.

Russ

[QUOTE=AllanMason]I know it's a crass question, but can you give some idea of the cost and how big the kitchen is? I'm not asking for an inventory or detailed price breakdown, just some idea of whether you're talking about a huge farmhouse kitchen and €10,000 or a corner of an ancient townhouse cantina and €50,000...Al[/QUOTE]

My kitchen - bought 2 years ago from Risparmione near Novara - cost me 5.000 Euros, inc white goods]. For that I got [in a basic style - nothing too fancy]

2 tall units[2.5m high x 0.6m wide], one with fitted fridge freezer

Base units - 3 x drawer units, 2 x cupboard units, sink unit with built in dishwasher, unit with cooker and hob.

Wall units - 3 x cupboards [1 glass fronted] corner cupboard unit and cooker hood unit.

3m of standard worktop with an inset sink plus peninsular unit worktop.

Delivery was 20 Euros [including surcharge for carrying up to 1st floor

Fitting was Euros 50 [I couldn't believe it either!]

I was lucky - they liaised with my geometra who was doing the house up on water' gas and electrics

Hope this helps

[url]www.scavolini.com/[/url]
[url]www.berloni.it/[/url]
[url]www.venetacucine.it/[/url]

the above are brands that you would find almost in every shop in Italy.

P

Why not go for a bespoke kitchen, have a design done and have someone make it to your requirements, measurements etc?

[QUOTE=alan haynes]My kitchen - bought 2 years ago from Risparmione near Novara - cost me 5.000 Euros, inc white goods]. For that I got [in a basic style - nothing too fancy][/QUOTE]

Good grief! My kitchen here will need a complete renovation before I put the house up for sale. Sounds like I should investigate buying all the fittings in Italy.

Do you think they'd do a delivery to Scotland for €20? :D

Al

Some of the nicest, most practical kitchens I've ever seen have been unfitted kitchens - free-standing, individual pieces of furniture (old or new). Possibly more expensive but individual, flexible and easy to change.

I can recommend veneta cucina cabinets. As to cost - it depends on what you have and what you want. Certainly aside from the fitting of the cabinets etc all the rest of the work was done by our local contacts. Local workshops and workers are always the best if recommended that's my view.

I must say I feel a bit waspish here - my purpose was to share the length of time that this process could take for innocents. That of course depends upon what you have to do in advance and what the challenges of your space are. Each to their own choice - no one way is better than the other.

we have fitted two new kitchens in our house...the first one was e7000... with fridge freezer...gas hob and high oven.... double sink and basically around seven metres in lenght and regarded as high quality.... its ok but not worth it....thats in our house....

second kithchen layed in a straight line e 1200 ...with gas hob...and fitted low level oven...double sink...drying rack above nice wood effect ...looks better than the more expensive kitchen in a way.... bought fridge freezer sepearte from it for i think e 200 from iper....

anyway both kitchens included fitting and delivery...both came from ...as one previous poster called it ...home stores...local small towns all have them.... be determined when you go in to them to make them realise you are after low value ones...if thats what you require....they come out measure and give you a 3d design and they order and install...took us a month.....

the store that did the cheaper one also noticed a scratch on one door.... re ordered it and came out and fitted it within a couple of weeks....

so i would reccomend that route.... as being amongst the easiest and if you like low cost or expensive they will have all the bits and pieces to satisfy your dreams.... i have seen kitchens for sale in castorama for e600 and mercatone for about the same...pescara ghas several big diy stores around the airport...castorama being one if you prfer that method...and providing you pay i think they will fit the also.... however the local firm will come and measure..very important .. and they might well make less mistakes on the whole job....if its a complicated fit

To all that answered, too many to name (including PM)
Thanks for all responses, I had been thinking about the local route, this will be my starting point. I have fitted 3 kitchens in my time including services but assume this would not be allowed in Italy (not allowed in UK since Jan as far as electrics go unless they are checked by qualified Leccy).
I would prefer to use local tradesmen/women where possible, anyway, too much other work to do.
The other point I wondered about is whether a gometra has to be involved, I presume that my local commune will advise, I will have to spend a bit of time with them to discuss my plans for various projects.
We don't want a posh kitchen, just a functional one, I quess E5000/6000 may suffice.
saluti
Stribs

I have never used a geometra. Unless you are doing a complete rebuild of the kitchen there is no need. If your room for the kitchen is pretty set up, all you need to do is talk to the local housewares shop and they can advise.

I should have explained better.
The extg kitchen is a room with the services supplied, no units of any description, an empty room. Great to start with a blank canvas, but we may want to move the 'kitchen' to another room, hence the question re geometra.
Stribs

Of the two threads available I've replied to the other and don't know if you on this thread will be able to read my post (useless at this stuff) Please read my post -can you tell me how to save all your kitchen advice for later when I may need it

F Bower (this seems so formal)
You don't need to save, at the bottom of the page you will see archives it will always be there (fingers crossed) or do a search on 'kitchen'

Stribs

stribs, you only need a geometra if you make structural changes to the house ie knock a wall down to make the kitchen bigger or put a wall up to make it smaller. Why don t you ask the local falegname to point you in the right direction about a new kitchen, they can be really helpful.

Ciao.

[QUOTE=derekL]Some of the nicest, most practical kitchens I've ever seen have been unfitted kitchens - free-standing, individual pieces of furniture (old or new). Possibly more expensive but individual, flexible and easy to change.[/QUOTE]

I agree derekL, it can be the most flexible too if you put casters on some of the pieces so you can reconfigure the kitchen for different needs. I think it can be done less expensively if you do some good planning with an idea of how things should be set up and where you want the permanent appliances and sinks on a "to scale" floorplan.