��������

...................... when nobody has anything to say!It is very unusual isn't it? Never mind I expect everyone will be back soon and making up for lost time.��

Its gone a bit quiet Alan, I agree.

Very quiet for sure. Perhaps everyone is trying to get some of the sunshine!!!�� I'am in the middle of a excavation project for a system, but rain stopped that, so have gone back to laying reinforced concrete floors in the cantina.Sure everyone will get back soon when the weather changes again.

I just don't find the new forums as user friendly or interesting as the old foums were.�� Consequently I log in maybe twice a week if that and I suspect there are other people who feel the same.��Chris

Wasnt a nice quiet forum what everyone wanted?��

Well I am still here, I guess we in Italy are taking advantage of the beautiful weather to be outside. I may post tomorrow about our first experience of an �������� funeral, but am not sure I have the words to express how much it meant to us and the community in our village.A

��

As Giovanni remided us, this now a community, not a mere forum.And, since Brits��have a��tendency to pretty much��keep themselves to themselves in their��real-world communities,��is it really��all that��surprising that this place has all the community spirit of a Wimpy estate in the Home Counties?Less facetiously, I think Chris and Badger make excellent points above. At this point, it seems to me there's little chance of this turning into someplace that's as interesting (and occasionally annoying or bewildering due to hidden meanings) as the old forums. Maybe that is indeed progress.��I guess The Powers That Be consider it a positive change, since I've not seen any hints of a rethink.But then maybe things are going on and I've��just not come across��mention of that fact. That wouldn't be hard to do.Al

Blimey , Anastasia a fairy type person!, that will give her a giggle when she no doubt reads this today.Bit like calling Carole a sweet old lady , or me for that matter. But made me smile, thanks!.A

A forum, community or whichever way you want to call a discussion place, is what members make of it. Without contributions, there is nothing to talk about. To be alive, interaction is needed. Several people have gone a bit quiet, including myself. In my case, it has nothing to do with the community. I am having a rough time because of some family problems which are affecting me more than what I anticipated. I don't have neither the energy, nor the time to devote to the community. Other people may��be experiencing��similar problems for different reasons.... it is hard to tell.I don't think that it has much to do with the new format in any case.��

This is��a 'community' created with the aim of��accruing��content from 'obedient' contributors while building up website hits and new members to generate advertising revenue. It has about as much soul as a robot.The Italymag. both before and after the demise of the printed version do not and never have had the 'community' users as their main concern. It's a business, now it appears run from Sicily.The, only recent, opening of the threads which can be read without signing in or joining was just a device to ensure that membership numbers grew quickly.No, I haven't posted much, why -�� Because a) it was��difficult to use search functions, b) it was forced through before many of the '��gemlins' were worked through and c) it's not a Community!

��Posted by nigelh "I am currently waiting in a proverbial dark alley for my revenge" (on Anastasia?)Is��Anastasia a member here?��

Wouldn't it be wiser to wait for your revenge on the forum where she made her comments to you and confront her face to��face��on her own forum rather than trying to dish up dirt on this one?�� After all, we do not know if what you say is true and as she is not here to put forward her side, it just seems like sour grapes on your part.����Maybe she touched a raw nerve and was right��if she said you should "get over it".

Its true this forum is a bit on the bland side and personally ; though the above mentioned person�� Ana whatsit slagged me off plenty of times on the 'old' forum and I had trouble understanding the blabber coming from a few other more 'eccentric' forumnites I miss��it - and I��prefer the old forum to this one.Never mind it can't be too long before someone comes along to stir things up a bit!

This is dialogue......This doesn't mean it's going 'pearshaped' - well not yet it doesn't.�� What is happening is that a number of previously prolific posters are coming out of the woodwork to voice their thoughts on the 'state of the community' (for lack of a better description).It is a bit more like life in a community should be. People being able to have their say without fear or favour. IMO that was much of the problem at the sudden imposed 'change over' to this dreadful format and approach to the membership.�� What did I get when I applied to 'rejoin' a forum I already belonged to? I got a warning that if I didn't 'toe the line' and if I didn't raise my previously voiced concerns in the new community then I could join. If I wouldn't agree to that then my application - after consideration(?) would be denied.�� What the administration was interested in was a sterile�� environment where there was no need for moderation of any kind. Mention that, which was then (and still is) my biggest anathema and I was told what would happen. Basically I would be 'out on my ear'!So - instead of putting in place a moderation team who knew what they were doing - the new regime chose what we see now... a community (not yet it's not)�� of�� 'almost' like minded people who are all stumbling around trying to find a good reason why they are here, or why they stay. All this was done with an almost indecent haste so they could avoid putting in place a fair and equitable method of moderation and thus continue to enjoy a vibrant, if sometimes heated, forum.�� Poor people management has just been changed to, what appears to be, poor commercial management.And on the question of the fund raising initiative - let's give kudos where it was due (but it was never really publicly given by �������� Magazine) - to the then Julian Coll aka 'Anastasia'. It was she who said she would badger us all into raising a huge sum in a set period of time and she kept her word. That was a superb effort which was followed by the other efforts by the groups mentioned above - but you forgot Moxie too - who worked tirelessly for the 'animals' of Abruzzo, and are still doing so I believe.��Now I haven't always seen eye to eye with a lot of people - and I still don't for that matter (that is neither here nor there), but I've been banned from better (and worse) places than this and I now risk getting the chop from here too. Well, if that's how it is - so be it - but I do feel that I do have the right to voice my opinion on 'why this site is no longer vibrant and has lost a lot of it's previous appeal!'����Edited for typo

I'm not exactly computer illiterate (I'm an IT��consultant) but I find the format and useability of the "community" so cumbersome that it drives me to distraction. I can't imagine what less IT savvy people make of it. They've probably given up!

Well this is probably the most interesting thread since we were forced out of the forum, this community thingy clearly isn't working we�� ( the old gang) actually liked the banter, bickering, smut, innuendo, humour and of course valuble/helpful info (of which we have seen little on here) of the forum.So I propose "BRING BACK THE FORUM" and stuff the community! ��

Seems there is nothing like a good(or bad) argument to get things moving again. ����Mark

Bet Al didnt expect such a robust response, and interesting to see the disaffected post after a long time to stir up the pot. I think it is difficult to create a virtual community, and it has been easier for members in Marche to take part perhaps as we often do know each other in real life and have formed friendships by way of this community and the other forum.And whilst J&C aka Anastasia did start the fund raising drive, there are also others including the Marche Chapter who carried this through, and I am thinking of Sarah and Mark and Andrew and Jean and Russ. But we saw it as a group project, and something that we were lucky to promote through Italy Mag, so dont knock it, it would have been impossible without Ronald and his team.I am not in favour of�� of what some may see as a "lively" debate which is just a disguise for some vitriol and bullying, those days are long gone. There is still room for debate, and perhaps this thread has opened up the opportunity to do that.A

��normally if i join this sort of debate it back fires... so just to say that angie has pretty well put it as i would have wanted to without adding fuel to fire... ��everyone that helped for L'Aquila helped... and thats it��i also concur both with some of relaxeds comments..not all but i miss charles or relaxed... and nigel is just finding himself the victim of the usual stuff... have sympathy for you but many of us have been through this mill of deliberate flaming so its good to see attention focused on another... basically for no fault of yours... i did like your name and tel number post.. but you will never have the patience to win ..and never get the last word... which most probably is good in my opinion ..menas yopu are both sane and have a real life to get on with��oh no... done it again...

I agree the new setup isn't as easy to navigate as the old one, and I never look further than the first page (though since that's where all the newest posts are, not sure I'm missing anything anyway).And it's a shame that some of the old guard have chosen to go elsewhere - they added a good deal of wit and humour.I'm all for a lively and interesting debate.��I��don't think��that��everyone understands the difference, and I'm happy to see the back of those who think that throwing their weight around and making personal attacks is an intelligent form of communication.Apologies to newer members who have no idea what this is all about.�� I was as bemused as you��may be��when I discovered that some use the internet to indulge in virtual playground bullying.��No doubt examples will follow .......����

Well I'm glad you all got that of your chests. Just like old times me thinks....have missed the good old character assignations, who said it's not a patch on the 'OLD' forum....... seems no different to me ...Careful with that stick near a hornets nest Alan.

Much more like it!Bravo

Its interesting in the use of language,"man enough" and "confront"and that old time Americanism "disrepect", what a load of nonsense.May we return to the real world. I doubt gio that you "know" her or that she/he is a friend. Friendships are based in a real world, with people that we like and support from day to day, and that for me is what this community has enabled me to do.A��

It seems you only have to sweep away a few bits of litter from this Piazza to get to the stench of drains.

Do we have��litter and drainage problems to contend with as well as all the��yob behaviour?�� We should have had a full structural done on this place before we bought it.����Put it up for sale quick,��slash the price and get rid of it before the market crashes further.

I find myself looking in onto the "community" less and less, because it's plain boring.�� As someone said, this has been the most interesting thread in a while.�� I know personally of a few people who simply can't be bothered any more.�� So on that note I'm off to watch the football match.�� England - Brazil on �������� TV!I might pop in again in a few days time to see if anything interesting has happened...

I got uppity on this thread, for which I am absolutely not going to apologise - even more determined ��since Heiko (a completely innocent non partisan member of the 'old' forum) has expressed perfectly why Heiko (he or she) cannot be bothered any more.It is nothing to do with the engineered bitchiness which this awful Nigel double barreled is trying to��engender (to his shame) - it is about this format DOES��NOT��WORK.This is not Facebook - it never will be. It is (for me) a disastrous lost opportunity, and about how one person (named Ronald) has - Oh God, how can I put it? - effed up the inheritance handed to him on a plate by some thickos at Poundbury.Should I care? Rationally, the answer is NO. And, yes, I have 'moved on'. But - I do still regret that the opportunity to explain, using humour and knowledge, why it costs so much�� more to 'do' an �������� roof than it costs to do an English roof, and then to get a nut and bolt assement of how much it 'should' cost from a South African roofer building in Italy...this dalogue just doesn't exist anymore. Uhuh, should this be in 'Living' - I don''t think so - so I will bung it into Commuinty guidlines, and maybe copy it into Introductions - who gives a shyte - no sort of moderator is around to re-position the post.We used to talk about these things -����in a��universally understood Vbulletin format, but that wan't good enough for The Webmaster. Clearly he is more interested in...I dunno...effing things up...than promulgating information.�� So he��gives��you a ��'wiki link - perlease...why is he trying to compete with a real Wiki?Where is the life which once we led... totally dead...and for those people like annec who default into supporting the status quo, have you really assessed how awful this current stuff is? I can do without nigel double barelled�� for sure. But where is lotan, or geotherm, or any other genuine people who got��a real pleasure out of simply giving advice - or even��just encouragement?

Well said Fillide, there is absolutely no help/advise offered on here anymore. so whats the point?

Hi Fillide.I am still around (Geotherm), but had to change my screen name due to the new community rules. Lotan, has also been on here under the same name, albeit, his last post was some time ago.Unlike the original forum, this format is not as interactive in content range or ease of navigation unfortunately. This must be the longest discussion thread since the new community started, so perhaps things may get better, or at least we can hope that it does!!!

I'm not really sure now what the point of the forum/community is edging towards nowadays. Originally I thought it was to give advice or discuss aspects of life that affected people with an interest or conection with Italy. Wether or not this advice was useful or wanted was up to the contributor and poster of the thread. With any internet based discussion group there will always be two , three or four differing opinions; who has the right to judge which is correct or valid is surely up to the individuals concerned.All I can say is if you�� personally don't like what shape this community is taking ; don't log on. The community will find it's own common dinominator but we should not try and make contributors feel like this is an elitist club, where scorn is poured on people who have a different outlook and priority in life.Personally I take all advice and direction given on this site with a pince of salt, as like most of us I assume, rely on my own judgement for important matters.There that's better.......!!

��"Willfully misunderstood��in order to allow the elitist closed shop element to engage in a bit of outsider hunting".That's rich.�� You should be grateful Anastasia isn't here to wipe the floor with you.�� All of you.��

I think Gromit has summed it up nicely for me.Can I take it Jinty didnt like the hat/picture or whatever she won in the raffle then?A

It was a cap Angie, but I don't��see��what that's got to do with��this topic because��I don't��need or want to read this constant vitriol from so many different people that has no place or purpose here.�� I will continue (just as others do) to sign in and to contribute.�� It's a place to offer opinion and mine is I don't think it's helpful to crow about things that have��no significance here anymore. Nigel may think it laughable that Ani could wipe the floor with him, but��you know she could certainly wipe the smile off his face and she's already touched a raw nerve of his, so I don't know why he would want to run the risk of a full blown agonising toothache.�� He should take his gripe about this elsewhere and just let us get on with our non thriving community life.�� That's��all��I'm trying to say.��

��hi Gio-can u pm me or can I ask where the other forum is with Anastasia,roman .relaxed,widow twanky et al. The alternative they all set up doesn't seem to be there anymore.?I l always sensed something about Julan Coll-you can tell quality. Glad to find out Charles was really Relaxed etc but probably now got himself banned from this one too..your right, this site is so boring doesn't interest me much these days and by now I am in a position to offer some experienced advice but no one even seems to be asking much either. II was never one of the witty vivacious ones from the old days either-just enjoyed their company.Loved Charles'double barrelled"-enjoyed DB's rather pompous self agrandising last post too.Wonderful stuff,just like the old days-sorry he's gone off in a tiff but really cant be said to be 'bullying' before all the told you so- ers start up again. �� ����ciao a tutti Shas

Nigel�� I think you are overeacting but I can understand where you are coming from. Anastasia was kicked off this forum so she is hyjacking another forum purely to wind you up - precisley why she was evicted from here in the first ,second or third place! Her posts were always original and thought provoking but if anyone took the oppersit view then you got flammed.I dont think anyone should be using forums like this to 'wipe the floor' with another person.That just infantile.Somehow you have the impression that everyone is against you - don't forget only a few people bother to post and if there are people who want to post in support of A why are you getting so wound up about it ? I'm sure that most people will sympathise with your experiences with the bad tenants ( me for one)��so why alienate them by being so defensive?I will be eternally grateful to the 'old' italy forum and I've actually got pages of info that I printed off and still refer to at times. I try where possible to give advice based on our experiences in Italy as do many 'old' forumites.I thnk that primarily this should be a place to exchange information, viewpoints and advice with perhaps an area where people can post slightly more lighthearted posts.The whole forum needs a redesign - and soon please!����